Yet another MP, ignorant about biology.

I agree that transwomen should not have the rught to compete in women"s sections of sports. The decision should be made by each sports authority.
I

Unfortunately Dickens threads on this particular subject tend to be a magnet for unproductive and pointless comments, but thankfully the vast majority are most productive and on point, which is maybe why I often get the feeling that there's an attempt to shut these discussions down.

That is happening now varian which is a good thing but little comfort to those women who trained long and hard for their particular event, only to be unfairly displaced by a biological male.

VioletSky

It's happening right now Dickens

Idk, I do repeatedly try to engage well on these threads but it's quite difficult when personal comments, misrepresented views and other shenanigans are going on

I will keep trying to do better

You mean personal comments like dragging my dead husband into your comments and saying that I had reached a “a new low”.

Oh that’s right. It was because you didn’t have you glasses. Though you managed to type your replies perfectly so not quite sure what it was you couldn’t see.

We both know that's not what happened Lathyrus

I'm very sorry for you loss

Idk, I do repeatedly try to engage well on these threads but it's quite difficult when personal comments, misrepresented views and other shenanigans are going on

Now here we have it - exactly what I was getting at before. All the examples on this thread of your belittling others, VS and your gaslighting about what you are claiming is 'a quote', when there is zero evidence of that, and you are claiming that there are 'personal comments, misrepresented views and shenanigans' - it would be unbelievable if we hadn't seen it all so often before.

And yes, Dickens - I agree, (but you are wasting your time asking )

I'm trying to give my honest opinion in discussion and won't be engaging with people who can't do the same

My honest opinion is that these discussion are scapegoating innocent vulnerable trans people unfairly and the snapshot examples thrown in arent representative of many kind honest and decent people who do value women and their rights

But that's how I feel, I'm not attacking anyone on a personal level, I just think it's become very unhealthy

I realise that is difficult to hear but as someone who has had to hear hard things myself, it can lead to personal growth and feeling more at peace with others

Oh that's great. If only I agree with you I will feel more at peace

It's not 'difficult to hear', I think I can speak for others when I say that many on this thread agree that there are many kind and responsible (trans)people who value women and their rights. But they will not be the ones who insist on having the 'right' to enter women's spaces, or claiming that they are 'the most vulnerable group in society' and asking for more rights than other people.

It is the ones who do all those things, and who do not value women and their rights who are being discussed, as well as the topic of the thread, which is the fact that of course there is such a thing as biological sex, and the constant gaslighting (as described in the OP) will never change that.

VioletSky

Thank you for pointing that out Lathyrus I misread something without my glasses. Sorry about that

Although you can’t read without you glasses you can see clearly enough to post

Clearly enough to post quite nastily

varian

I agree that transwomen should not have the rught to compete in women"s sections of sports. The decision should be made by each sports authority.
I

Why should it?
It should be a straightforward NO to male people in women's and girls' sports at every stage.
No decision needed.

I agree FarNorth.

Smileless2012

Unfortunately Dickens threads on this particular subject tend to be a magnet for unproductive and pointless comments, but thankfully the vast majority are most productive and on point, which is maybe why I often get the feeling that there's an attempt to shut these discussions down.

Yes, the last thread on a similar topic ended up with a massive filibuster at the end to get it to 1000 posts and closed.

When this happens there is usually an outcry if anyone attempts to pick up where the thread left off by starting a new one. The tactics are obvious. Still, this one has plenty of space left for now.

It must be extremely difficult to go through life assigning awful motivations to others whilst having no ability to take accountability for your own actions

Mistakes are human

As are reactions

Apologising is difficult but ultimately and healthy

Demonising others doesn't ultimately harm anyone who doesn't have a relationship with you

VioletSky

I'm trying to give my honest opinion in discussion and won't be engaging with people who can't do the same.

But I and others do post our honest opinions, so if you refuse to engage, that means what you just said is an untruth. I’m happy if you choose not to engage, but . . .
Your choice of which to do.

VS says
My honest opinion is that these discussion are scapegoating innocent vulnerable trans people unfairly and the snapshot examples thrown in arent representative of many kind honest and decent people who do value women and their rights.

And as I’ve pointed out before, VS, other posters including me, know and have acknowledged that there are TW out there who are honest and decent people who do value women and their rights.
I never understand why you claim things like that as if you’re the only one who thinks that.
*Doodledog, at 20:43 says the rest of what needs saying, so I don’t need to repeat it.

But re. your final paragraph at 20:36, I think Galaxy sums up that bit of vs very accurately.

Galaxy

Oh that's great. If only I agree with you I will feel more at peace.

Fortunately, I don’t need your agreement for my personal growth or to feel more at peace with others.
Have a nice day.

VioletSky

It must be extremely difficult to go through life assigning awful motivations to others whilst having no ability to take accountability for your own actions

Mistakes are human

As are reactions

Apologising is difficult but ultimately and healthy

Demonising others doesn't ultimately harm anyone who doesn't have a relationship with you

Are these quotes? Confucius? The Dalai Lama? Khalil Gibran? fortune cookies?

It's hard to tell, as you haven't directed the post to anyone in particular, and none of it is relevant to the subject of the thread.

VioletSky

It must be extremely difficult to go through life assigning awful motivations to others whilst having no ability to take accountability for your own actions

Mistakes are human

As are reactions

Apologising is difficult but ultimately and healthy

Demonising others doesn't ultimately harm anyone who doesn't have a relationship with you

Sigh.

The typical sideways snide nastiness not actually addressed to the intended recipient do that you you can deny if called to account for personal remarks.

It must be difficult for someone to go through life so fundamentally dishonest in all their relationships with others.

Even more difficult for those who have to live with them.

I won't be coming back to these threads. I think those who enjoy attacking others and driving this type of personal vendetta enjoy it and I want no further part in that unhealthiness

I'll stick to threads where this behaviour is more apparent and less tolerated by others

Thank you Lathyrus.

VS it is you who has attacked others throughout this thread!

As I said in a post above you falsely accused me of misquoting you and lying about it, you have reported or threatened to report a post, called others ridiculous, said we were talking nonsense, 'scapegoating', dealing out 'low blows' and more besides, then play the victim and say that you are subject to a personal vendetta.

You have said nothing on this thread about the topic, but every post has been a personal dig at someone, yet you see yourself as the victim.

It's very tedious, and happens on a lot of threads.

So, VS not engaging with honest opinions?
I must admit, it’s been hard
being attacked,
mislabelled,
accused of believing all trans are like the ones who cause trouble,
or trying to close down discussions.

I won’t miss that, but I support your right to remove yourself from any discussion.
Your choice, no one else’s fault.

VioletSky

I won't be coming back to these threads. I think those who enjoy attacking others and driving this type of personal vendetta enjoy it and I want no further part in that unhealthiness

I'll stick to threads where this behaviour is more apparent and less tolerated by others

VioletSky you do more than your share of attacking others, always painting yourself in a glowing light of acceptance and kindness, while putting in the barbs at others. You simply refuse to accept the discomfort, fear or unease that many women feel when forced to accept males in intimate spaces because those males say the magic words "I am a woman". Rachel Dolezal was slaughtered for saying she felt and identified as black. Would you support her "inner identity" and tell black people they were bigots to question her inclusion? I know you'll read this post, I wonder if you'll be honest enough to respond. I think it's unhealthy to feed mental illness by whatever means, kindness sometimes means making people face reality.

oops I hadn't refreshed the page. Doodledog and Mollygo had addressed my point already.

Yes, Rosie51, but your point was well made.

It shows that we have all come to the same conclusions, doesn’t it?