Yet another MP, ignorant about biology.

Sorry - I forgot the quote there, but that was to VS. I do not tell lies, and will defend myself against accusations that I do.

That post was not sharing a quote - it was a direct comment, whether or not someone else had said it first. In many ways it doesn't matter anyway. I was simply referring to the fact that VS had said it, which she did, and she decided (although she claims that she doesn't report) to hit the report button.

VioletSky

Why don't we just leave people's biology to people educated in the subject like scientists and doctors so they can assure everyone gets the medical care they need

Then we can mind our own business and stop having threads about people who don't deserve a public coal raking just for existing

Was that addressed to us or to Kirsty Blackman?

If she was born male and now wishes to live as a woman, then I respect that decision.

Also, nobody is coal raking (??) because of someone's existence, but because of the assertion that there is no concrete definition of biological sex.

"it was more common for people without a DSD to identify as intersex, than those with a DSD, who mainly see themselves as men and women with a medical condition."

From this quite long, very informative article:

differently-normal.com/2021/10/25/the-invention-of-intersex/?preview_id=292&preview_nonce=0d6cea1ac5&preview=true

And here's what the NHS says :

www.nhs.uk/conditions/differences-in-sex-development/

Lathyrus

Herefornow

I'm not sure how commonly available a chromosome test is for the average person, so it would possibly be difficult to get that confirmation. Perhaps someone will be along to advise.

It's entirely possible that her chromosomes are not XY, or XX.

You do realise they teach a very simplified version narrative re chromosomes in high schools? An estimated 1.7% globally have different sex chromosomes to the 2 aforementioned categories of xx and xy. In the UK that's over a million people? This whole 'sex is binary' thing is factually inaccurate. We can look down an electron microscope and see that it is inaccurate.

All that being said, you're perfectly right, no amount of surgery will change your chromosomes. In that case, if you're not strictly male or female, what do you do? This is a serious question, I'm actually asking? You've been raised as a boy, you desperately feel that you're a girl, turns out your chromosomes are neither. How are you supposed to participate in society where people literally take to the Internet to discuss how your existence is impossible because their high school science teacher told them so 50 years ago? Please someone explain?

Can we just clear up something about the 1.7% quoted here.

The vast majority of these are XXY -Klinefelter syndrome- and they are not intersex or a third sex or anything like that. They are males with an extra X chromosome. Approximately 1 in 650.

Many are totally unaware until in a relationship where fertility becomes an issue although it can cause other medical problems.

It might be compared in genetic terms to Down’s syndrome which is also the result of an extra chromosome.

Those with Klinefelter syndrome have repeatedly asked for their syndrome not to be included in discussions on trans issues. Infertility is enough to deal with without people suggesting you are not a real male. It’s disrespectful and hurtful.

There is no question that they are male.

Well said and well worth pointing out, Lathyrus.

It is normal to put quotes from other people in quotation marks, and it's generally considered correct to attribute to the author.

Kirsty Blackman is a female who has given birth to two children. She says it was a mistake to say "probably XY". Kirsty dropped out of medicine, maybe a very good thing!

I haven’t undergone genetic testing. Does that mean I can only assume that I’m a woman?
I’m sorry Callistemon, I’m not trying to be obstructive but I’m puzzled by that. Probably not helped by the fact that I didn’t know anything about Kirsty Blackman other than she is an MP, or anything about what she has claimed, apart from what is written on this thread.

The above in reference to VS saying she was quoting.

It's Kirsty Blackman's speech that is the subject of this discussion VS, not that she exists!!!

From the article I linked a few posts ago - Differently Normal - The Invention of Intersex.

maddyone

I haven’t undergone genetic testing. Does that mean I can only assume that I’m a woman?
I’m sorry Callistemon, I’m not trying to be obstructive but I’m puzzled by that. Probably not helped by the fact that I didn’t know anything about Kirsty Blackman other than she is an MP, or anything about what she has claimed, apart from what is written on this thread.

No, I think most of us can assume what our chromosomes are, unless or until we have some medical problem which necessitates genetic testing.

I have since read on here that Kirsty Blackman is female, has given birth, so my assumption that she was male, is transgender and living as a woman was wrong.

Like Kirsty, I should never assume anything but I'm not a politician who really should learn something about the subject she is debating.

Thanks Callistemon.

Callistemon21 you were not alone in your assumption after the "XY chromosome" speech by Kirsty Blackman. Loads on twitter started to say exactly the same. Whether it was a slip of the tongue or a deliberate ploy we'll never know. Funnily enough she has two children, one given a traditionally male name, the other a traditionally female name. How she knew which name to give to which baby is a total mystery

I don't follow Twitter, unless there's a link on here to something.

Scottish politician Kirsty Blackman in her speech, suggested there was no concrete definition of "biological sex"

If not, why do the chromosomes differ in males and females?
🤔

Rosie51.
🤣🤣
It’s quite possible she had learned of each baby’s sex before hand and chose the names then. Otherwise, the old fashioned way still works-looked at their bits!

Mollygo

Rosie51.
🤣🤣
It’s quite possible she had learned of each baby’s sex before hand and chose the names then. Otherwise, the old fashioned way still works-looked at their bits!

Unless she has a boy named Sue! 🎶

Learning of the sex beforehand only involves squinting at their bits on an ultrasound.
Even less accurate than waiting till the child is born, and where I live it's not done because of mistakes being made.

Lathyrus

Katie59

I dont believe that 1.7% have chromosome differences, there are many other reasons that sexual characteristics don’t develop fully at puberty.

It is more or less correct As I posted early most of these have Klinefelter syndrome. They are male with all the male bits except reproductive gonads.

1.7% is around 1 in 60 you are quoting “most” Kleinfelter as
1 in 650

Is there maths problem somewhere, as a midwife I did look and we were shown the variations and in my whole career only 2 or 3 had those characteristics, many others with downs and other conditions.

Non women, chest feeders , people with a cervix, people who menstruate, what the hell is going on!? There appears to be a desire to eradicate women!! No talk of a person with a penis or non men.
I completely support those who wish to identify as the gender that is opposite to their gender assigned at birth. More than willing to accept they must be treated with respect as the gender they identify with. However....... they can never ever change their biological gender, it is just impossible.
Intersex people on the other hand , now that is a completely different situation and one I am not qualified to discuss, other than to say that they too deserve understanding and compassion.

I'm glad that John Hopkins University has withdrawn this Glorianny and I wonder how it came to appear in the first place.

It does erase all women, not only lesbians, because the word which should have been used was 'women' and it was replaced with 'non-men'.

Callistemon21

I don't follow Twitter, unless there's a link on here to something.

Scottish politician Kirsty Blackman in her speech, suggested there was no concrete definition of "biological sex"

If not, why do the chromosomes differ in males and females?
🤔

Kirsty Blackman’s speech was full of her versions of the truth.

VioletSky

Why don't we just leave people's biology to people educated in the subject like scientists and doctors so they can assure everyone gets the medical care they need

Then we can mind our own business and stop having threads about people who don't deserve a public coal raking just for existing

You mean like Sir Robert Winston?

This Sir Robert Winston who is totally ignored, or worse rubbished, by some people who'd rather believe a student publication full of mights, could, maybes, than a leading fertility expert?

VK
It’s not about minding our own business but about the eradication of women in certain circles. Non men, chest feeders, people with a cervix, people who menstruate. Shelflife is right, what’s going on here? No one calls men, non women, or people with a penis, or people who can’t biologically feed etc etc.
I’ve never seen a post on Gransnet which has claimed that trans women shouldn’t be allowed to get on with their lives unhindered. Just that they shouldn’t be in women’s spaces safe spaces, and I’ve seen objections to being called non men, or people with a cervix etc. I object to that, I’m a woman and would like that to be acknowledged and respected. Using these other words to describe women is disrespectful.

Can't expect MPs to know everything!