Yet another MP, ignorant about biology.

My point is, alot of you are spending a great deal of time trying to devise and enforce the perfect set of rules for keeping men (and therefore by various definitions, though not my own, transwomen) out of women's spaces to avoid being raped.

This is a noble aim, but I think its actually an impossible aim to achieve by just instigating some supposedly foolproof set of rules. Rapists find ways to rape. Its awful. Truly horrifying. But what about improving conviction rates? What about teaching kids to respect their own and each others bodies?

Herefornow

I think this is a maddening amount of mental energy being put into toilet segregation rules when you all could be tackling, I don't know, substandard womens health care, maternity discrimination, or crippling childcare costs driving an ever increasing gender pay gap. But each to their own.

While we allow -or even support in some cases- male demands to control how females should live their lives, none of that will change.

Did you read the thread, Herefornow? I'm not going to repeat it all, but this is not about 'toilet segregation', and people can put their mental energy into more than one thing at a time.

Yes I see that too Glorianny but not from women wanting to maintain safe spaces for women, or from women who want other women to be able to compete in sport on a level playing field, or from women who don't want to be given the ridiculous labels we're currently seeing, in what can only be described as a desperate attempt to eradicate the word woman from everyday language.

It isn't just about "toilet segregation" Herefornow as the aforementioned demonstrates.

I think this is a maddening amount of mental energy being put into toilet segregation rules when you all could be tackling, I don't know, substandard womens health care, maternity discrimination, or crippling childcare costs driving an ever increasing gender pay gap. But each to their own.

I actually thought her reference to suicide because of a legitimate democratic debate was the most worrying part of her speech.

And Glorianny, you’re still missing the point. If Kirsty Blackman is going to use chromosomes in a public speech, she should know at least the basics.

Special group of men who dont commit crimes that should say.

Yet you agree with single sex spaces as described in the equality act.
Transwomen are Male. Some will be predatory, some wont. They arent some sort of special group.

Glorianny that’s exactly what I see on here.
You did it again!👏👏
But actually what I see is a group of women (who may or may not be male) who want to impose their beliefs on all females whether they like it or not

I only have to look at the insults and labels hurled at any who disagree with their beliefs to appreciate they are intent on dominating and subduing.

It's actually a very patriarchal way of looking at things. TRA and women who support males feel males should win and it takes resilience to oppose them.

Well that's great. But actually what I see is a group of women who want to impose their beliefs on all women regardless of how any other women feel. You only have to look at the insults hurled at any who disagree with their beliefs to appreciate they are intent on dominating and subduing and it takes resilience to oppose them. It's actually a very patriarchal way of looking at things. The strongest wins.

I see nothing wrong with spaces which are female spaces being run independently by women with guidance from the equality act

As for the transwoman threatening and bruising another woman, I thought the problem was predatory males.

I too think it is ironic that there are women forced to stay completely separate from men, by men, and that those insisting on the vulnerability of women don't realise the closeness their philosophy has to this.

Thank you smileless2012

Glorianny never explains how she would stop males going into female spaces. Presumably for the same reasons she also persistently avoids using female, but always woman safe in the knowledge that when she says, I’m empowering women, she is equally saying she’s empowering males who claim they are women.

Glorianny’s claim to be empowering women really made me sad.
I have this image of a female facing a male, TW or not, who is angry at being challenged for being in a place where he should not be.

Does Glorianny think that saying Glorianny has empowered me will save the female from the probable bruises?

Women have taken responsibility for deciding who can have access to women's spaces Glorianny; women. Not trans women or men identifying as women but biological women.

That's not the problem though is it. The problem is that our decision is not being sufficiently respected and enforced and not just when it comes to women's spaces but also in sport.

There's no need to concern yourself about weak women, cowering in the corner because it's not happening and that's evident here on GN.

I found your earlier post where you referred to societies forcing the segregation of women to protect them from males rather ironic, when there are women fighting to maintain spaces their spaces, because the want segregation and are being forced to give them up.

Lots of things arent easy. We dont not do them because of that. The drink driving laws dont stop all cases of drunk driving but still we dont make driving off your head legal.
One answer to your question would be a cultural shift, it's what worked with drink driving to some extent, so we say that womens boundaries are more important than the feelings of sone men. We stop cheering on men in womens spaces.

Mollygo

Glorianny
I've always believed in single sex spaces and have posted many times about them, pretending I haven't is ridiculous.

*Nobody is pretending anything. You always say do you believe in single sex spaces, but you always qualify that by saying it’s up to women to challenge males in their female safe spaces, Rather than supporting the idea that actually males should be honest enough to not go in there.
Unfortunately the males who are honest enough not to go in there, aren’t the ones cause the problems. It’s the males who want to be in female safe spaces who cause the problems. Sad that their actions are supported by equally misogynistic females.

I've posted that I believe the women using those spaces should be the people responsible for deciding who has access to them. That's empowering women. I realise there are women who don't want ordinary women to have power or to make decisions.

I have never mentioned anyone having to challenge anyone else. I may have asked how any rule applying to some spaces would be administered. Something I believe was answered with "That's not our responsibility".

I have never condoned males entering spaces designated as female. I may have asked how it was to be administered- but answer came there none.

As we have seen on here, you can’t argue with misogyny, those who think males are always right, when it’s to do with female rights.
That doesn’t alter the fact that KB should know about chromosomes, if she’s using them in a public speech.

Transwomen are men. This is where this game leads. There is no reason why Isla Bryson isnt a transwoman. You just need the right magic words.

Doodledog

Not all of them, no. But men who pass themselves off as women in order to access women's spaces are a huge threat.

(click. click. click.)

But those men only do so to access women. Once transmen are using those spaces they won't need to dress up as anything will they?

What? Transwomen are men. They are of the same risk as the sex they belong to.

Glorianny
I've always believed in single sex spaces and have posted many times about them, pretending I haven't is ridiculous.

*Nobody is pretending anything. You always say do you believe in single sex spaces, but you always qualify that by saying it’s up to women to challenge males in their female safe spaces, Rather than supporting the idea that actually males should be honest enough to not go in there.
Unfortunately the males who are honest enough not to go in there, aren’t the ones cause the problems. It’s the males who want to be in female safe spaces who cause the problems. Sad that their actions are supported by equally misogynistic females.

Not all of them, no. But men who pass themselves off as women in order to access women's spaces are a huge threat.

(click. click. click.)

Doodledog

The record is stuck again.

Yes, men get beaten up, and yes occasionally men get raped.

But that doesn't happen in women's spaces, and only extremely rarely are women the perpetrators (never, in the case of rape). Men commit the vast majority of violence against other men and against women. Why is the answer to make things more difficult for women, even if that protects the men who want to pass themselves off as women? Why aren't transwomen taught to avoid, de-escalate and leave, before using their skills at self-defence, and leave women in peace in our own spaces?

Because as you have often agreed transwomen are no threat to natal women.

The record is stuck again.

Yes, men get beaten up, and yes occasionally men get raped.

But that doesn't happen in women's spaces, and only extremely rarely are women the perpetrators (never, in the case of rape). Men commit the vast majority of violence against other men and against women. Why is the answer to make things more difficult for women, even if that protects the men who want to pass themselves off as women? Why aren't transwomen taught to avoid, de-escalate and leave, before using their skills at self-defence, and leave women in peace in our own spaces?

Doodledog

*I've tried desperately to explain that if transwomen are made to use men' facilities then transmen will use women's, which means a man doesn't even need to dress up to get in. But it doesn't fit the narrative so it is ignored.*

It is ignored because it is untrue. Transmen using the ladies does not mean that a man doesn't need to dress up to get in - it means that a woman who is dressing up as a man is using the facilities designed for her sex.

Of course it means a man can get in without dressing up. You cannot challenge anyone of masculine appearance because they may be a transman.(who you think is a woman anyway) Therefore a nefarious man entering does not need to disguise himself as a woman. He just walks in.

Galaxy

They are just collateral damage doodle, and I would add to that pretty much any women faced by a man intent on rape or violence.

Yes, and we can't just have men doing the avoiding, by refraining from entering women's spaces, can we? They have to be allowed to do as they please, and women can just shut up and move over.