Court of appeal supports asylum seekers challenge

Freya5

DaisyAnneReturns

Nicenanny3

22:30Iam64

I’m particularly alienated by (not)nicegranny3’s suggestion that asylum seeker may = rapist.
Yes some asylum seekers will be predators but not the majority, this demonising/othering of desperate people is a sad reflection of the lack of compassion and understanding shown by some

The Rwanda proposal was always dreadful. Now it’s illegal thank goodness

*I beg your pardon another poster calling me names just because you don't like my post taken from a newspaper, well I'm sorry but it happened an illegal who came off a dingy only 40 days before and was being put up in a Hotel in Skegness courtesy of the UK taxpayers raped a girl, perhaps you don't like the truth and I did not say that all illegals coming over the channel having paid criminal gangs to get here are rapists but the facts are that the ones who have destroyed their paperwork/IDs we know nothing about and infact they could be convicted criminals, murderers, there are supposedly 19 suspected ISIS soldiers being put up in hotels God only knows why they haven't been deported. Perhaps instead of calling posters names you should get your head out of the sand*

I dread to think which paper you were quoting from. People cannot be "illegal" as I am sure you know by now. However an asylum seekers arrives, if the say they they are claiming assylum they have done nothing "illegal".

You caĺl yourself "nice" but the use of such language is the first step in ghettoising a group. We have seen this done in the past and doing it now makes those who use such language no better than those we did it in the past. They are certainly not "nice" people, whether grandparents or anything else.

Conflating the words "asylum seeker" with the word rapist as if they are one and the same is disgusting. It reflects the use of the word "vermin" against Jews in the 1930s which conditioned people to think their "extermination" was acceptable. In the past (at least I hope it is past) in the USA, the conflation of colour with the word "rapist" let to vigilante attacks and even lynchings.

I think simply saying that you are not being "nice" is the least anyone can expect when they pick up on these extremist attempts to manipulate a population.

Freedom of speech is a privilege, not a right. This type of propaganda destroys others human rights.

"Freedom of speech is a fundamental human right. Enshrined in Article19 of the declaration of HR".
"I might not like what you say, but I defend your right to say it."

I'm not sure where the quote from Evelyn Beatrice Hall comes in. I, for one do not agree with it. I would not defend the right of anyone to use speech or any other weapon to hurt or limit others. But then I am not a far-right extremist.

Freedom of speech is, first and foremost, a privilege. It can only exist in a reasonably liberal, democratic society. It can then be described and limited by law.

You really do think Conservative voters are stupid don’t you?

Germanshepherdsmum

You really do think Conservative voters are stupid don’t you?

"Stupid" would not be the word I would use.

I know exactly what you’d say. Not that it troubles me.

I would stick to the facts GSM. Why do you need to make a point of facts "not troubling" you? "Stupid" was, after all, the word that sprang to your mind, not mine. I hope I wouldnt treat any group as an amorphous mass.

Glorianny

Am I the only person who finds it increasingly weird that we have a government, with several of its senior officers second generation migrants, who think they have they have the authority and mandate to close Britain to asylum seeker or to deport them to unsafe countries? Do they never think "There but for the grace of God (and the welcoming British people) go I"?

Tin hat moment but, am I the only person who wonders whether Pritti Patel and Suella Braverman aren’t seen as useful in delivering statements and policies that would be less acceptable coming from white British politicians

DaisyAnneReturns

I would stick to the facts GSM. Why do you need to make a point of facts "not troubling" you? "Stupid" was, after all, the word that sprang to your mind, not mine. I hope I wouldnt treat any group as an amorphous mass.

You think Conservative voters (‘an amorphous mass’) are something other than stupid - so what did you have in mind when you made your comment?

GSM You have tried, oh so hard, to make out that I called Conservative voters an amorphous mass when I had just said I wouldn't treat any group as that. Perhaps you want to object to the word "group" which is what I did describe them as.

You also seem to want to make out I would use some vaguely offensive word when you used the word stupid - which I find offensive -and had said it was not the word I would use. It is a horrible word to use and breaks down people's confidence.

Now, if you want to twist what people say, could you go and do it to someone else.

Iam64

Glorianny

Am I the only person who finds it increasingly weird that we have a government, with several of its senior officers second generation migrants, who think they have they have the authority and mandate to close Britain to asylum seeker or to deport them to unsafe countries? Do they never think "There but for the grace of God (and the welcoming British people) go I"?

Tin hat moment but, am I the only person who wonders whether Pritti Patel and Suella Braverman aren’t seen as useful in delivering statements and policies that would be less acceptable coming from white British politicians

I think they have been used in exactly that way, and to create distractions.

So what is your chosen word DAR?

DaisyAnneReturns

Freya5

DaisyAnneReturns

Nicenanny3

22:30Iam64

I’m particularly alienated by (not)nicegranny3’s suggestion that asylum seeker may = rapist.
Yes some asylum seekers will be predators but not the majority, this demonising/othering of desperate people is a sad reflection of the lack of compassion and understanding shown by some

The Rwanda proposal was always dreadful. Now it’s illegal thank goodness

*I beg your pardon another poster calling me names just because you don't like my post taken from a newspaper, well I'm sorry but it happened an illegal who came off a dingy only 40 days before and was being put up in a Hotel in Skegness courtesy of the UK taxpayers raped a girl, perhaps you don't like the truth and I did not say that all illegals coming over the channel having paid criminal gangs to get here are rapists but the facts are that the ones who have destroyed their paperwork/IDs we know nothing about and infact they could be convicted criminals, murderers, there are supposedly 19 suspected ISIS soldiers being put up in hotels God only knows why they haven't been deported. Perhaps instead of calling posters names you should get your head out of the sand*

I dread to think which paper you were quoting from. People cannot be "illegal" as I am sure you know by now. However an asylum seekers arrives, if the say they they are claiming assylum they have done nothing "illegal".

You caĺl yourself "nice" but the use of such language is the first step in ghettoising a group. We have seen this done in the past and doing it now makes those who use such language no better than those we did it in the past. They are certainly not "nice" people, whether grandparents or anything else.

Conflating the words "asylum seeker" with the word rapist as if they are one and the same is disgusting. It reflects the use of the word "vermin" against Jews in the 1930s which conditioned people to think their "extermination" was acceptable. In the past (at least I hope it is past) in the USA, the conflation of colour with the word "rapist" let to vigilante attacks and even lynchings.

I think simply saying that you are not being "nice" is the least anyone can expect when they pick up on these extremist attempts to manipulate a population.

Freedom of speech is a privilege, not a right. This type of propaganda destroys others human rights.

"Freedom of speech is a fundamental human right. Enshrined in Article19 of the declaration of HR".
"I might not like what you say, but I defend your right to say it."

I'm not sure where the quote from Evelyn Beatrice Hall comes in. I, for one do not agree with it. I would not defend the right of anyone to use speech or any other weapon to hurt or limit others. But then I am not a far-right extremist.

Freedom of speech is, first and foremost, a privilege. It can only exist in a reasonably liberal, democratic society. It can then be described and limited by law.

So people can only say what you like them to say, typical left wing response.

Freya5

DaisyAnneReturns

Freya5

DaisyAnneReturns

Nicenanny3

22:30Iam64

I’m particularly alienated by (not)nicegranny3’s suggestion that asylum seeker may = rapist.
Yes some asylum seekers will be predators but not the majority, this demonising/othering of desperate people is a sad reflection of the lack of compassion and understanding shown by some

The Rwanda proposal was always dreadful. Now it’s illegal thank goodness

*I beg your pardon another poster calling me names just because you don't like my post taken from a newspaper, well I'm sorry but it happened an illegal who came off a dingy only 40 days before and was being put up in a Hotel in Skegness courtesy of the UK taxpayers raped a girl, perhaps you don't like the truth and I did not say that all illegals coming over the channel having paid criminal gangs to get here are rapists but the facts are that the ones who have destroyed their paperwork/IDs we know nothing about and infact they could be convicted criminals, murderers, there are supposedly 19 suspected ISIS soldiers being put up in hotels God only knows why they haven't been deported. Perhaps instead of calling posters names you should get your head out of the sand*

I dread to think which paper you were quoting from. People cannot be "illegal" as I am sure you know by now. However an asylum seekers arrives, if the say they they are claiming assylum they have done nothing "illegal".

You caĺl yourself "nice" but the use of such language is the first step in ghettoising a group. We have seen this done in the past and doing it now makes those who use such language no better than those we did it in the past. They are certainly not "nice" people, whether grandparents or anything else.

Conflating the words "asylum seeker" with the word rapist as if they are one and the same is disgusting. It reflects the use of the word "vermin" against Jews in the 1930s which conditioned people to think their "extermination" was acceptable. In the past (at least I hope it is past) in the USA, the conflation of colour with the word "rapist" let to vigilante attacks and even lynchings.

I think simply saying that you are not being "nice" is the least anyone can expect when they pick up on these extremist attempts to manipulate a population.

Freedom of speech is a privilege, not a right. This type of propaganda destroys others human rights.

"Freedom of speech is a fundamental human right. Enshrined in Article19 of the declaration of HR".
"I might not like what you say, but I defend your right to say it."

I'm not sure where the quote from Evelyn Beatrice Hall comes in. I, for one do not agree with it. I would not defend the right of anyone to use speech or any other weapon to hurt or limit others. But then I am not a far-right extremist.

Freedom of speech is, first and foremost, a privilege. It can only exist in a reasonably liberal, democratic society. It can then be described and limited by law.

So people can only say what you like them to say, typical left wing response.

How dare you infer I'm a right wing extremist, your comment has been reported.

I did no such thing Freya. I too have reported the post.

Germanshepherdsmum

So what is your chosen word DAR?

You have asked this question and I have answered it. You chose the word. You used the pejorative word to describe an identified group of people. I did not.

Freya5, no one referred to you as a right wing extremist. Some of your comments directed at those of us who don’t share your world view, suggest you dismiss us as ‘typical left wing’.
How come you consider that a reasonable response whilst any suggestion of right wing bias is dismissed

Also DaisyAnne didn’t say ‘people can only say what you like them to say’. She stated that freedom of speech can only occur in liberal democracies. That’s the truth and is being used by everyone contributing here.

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

I don’t think the debate is about left or right wing there are plenty of Labour voters who don’t like migrants and plenty of Tory voters who are tolerant. It about liberalism, how many migrants should we allow and what should we do with them.

It’s clear many, probably a majority are not genuine assylum seekers, I dont have solutions for stopping boats crossing the channel, but arrivals should be processed quickly and given work not dumped in camps or hotels for months.

It’s clear many, probably a majority are not genuine assylum seekers

It’s not clear at all. Please provide creditable evidence to back up this claim.

And now you can relax. New Conservatives, with Lee Anderson, has announced their 12 point plan to reduce immigration.

Iam64

Glorianny

Am I the only person who finds it increasingly weird that we have a government, with several of its senior officers second generation migrants, who think they have they have the authority and mandate to close Britain to asylum seeker or to deport them to unsafe countries? Do they never think "There but for the grace of God (and the welcoming British people) go I"?

Tin hat moment but, am I the only person who wonders whether Pritti Patel and Suella Braverman aren’t seen as useful in delivering statements and policies that would be less acceptable coming from white British politicians

No. I think that, too.

Message deleted by Gransnet. Quotes a deleted post.

We are friendly with the Serbian owner of a car wash.
Some years ago we had an incident in Southend involving migrants for Kosovo so this subject came up.
His attitude was that there are too many of them because they work cheap and could put him out of business.
We pointed out to him that friends of ours had gone bust because of cheap Labour.

Katie59

I don’t think the debate is about left or right wing there are plenty of Labour voters who don’t like migrants and plenty of Tory voters who are tolerant. It about liberalism, how many migrants should we allow and what should we do with them.

It’s clear many, probably a majority are not genuine assylum seekers, I dont have solutions for stopping boats crossing the channel, but arrivals should be processed quickly and given work not dumped in camps or hotels for months.

You are right Katie. Extreme views exist on both left and right.

However, I don't think it is at all clear, from the statistics of the percentage eventually granted assylum, in our oh so slow system, that the majority are not genuine. I wonder what led you to form this idea?

Maremia

And now you can relax. New Conservatives, with Lee Anderson, has announced their 12 point plan to reduce immigration.

It’s literally all they have now, isn’t it? Creating culture wars and inciting fear of others in a desperate attempt to cling on to their seats, regardless of the economic and social impacts.

I hope there are saner, more responsible conservative MPs who will speak out against this nonsense. It will be telling - and tragic - if not.

I note that bastion if the right wing and Braverman supporter -Steve Baker- can no longer stomach Bravermans culture wars and has withdrawn his support.