What is left about Labour now?

Whitewavemark2

Of course the cynics could be correct and that Starmer’s strategy is as empty and gutless as they are suggesting on so many of these threads. But once Starmer wins and labour are back into power, those moaning Minnie’s will cease to have any traction and labour in government will no longer need to listen.

I am not sure what you are meaning here. If you mean the moaning minnies are the left wingers, well they haven't got any traction now and he is already not listening to them.

Ilovecheese

Whitewavemark2

Of course the cynics could be correct and that Starmer’s strategy is as empty and gutless as they are suggesting on so many of these threads. But once Starmer wins and labour are back into power, those moaning Minnie’s will cease to have any traction and labour in government will no longer need to listen.

I am not sure what you are meaning here. If you mean the moaning minnies are the left wingers, well they haven't got any traction now and he is already not listening to them.

Yes certainly the left wingers, but also those critics that are sceptical of Starmer’s strategy.

The same would happens here as in Norway if it was increased so Rachel Reeves has it right I think.
The wealthy already pay a lot of tax.
We won’t know if Starmer will be a great PM until he does the job, tbh tho, things couldn’t be much worse under him could they?

Richard Murphy

The economic truths that seem to have passed Labour by.

Labour is in denial of economic reality when it says it will keep public spending down and not tax the rich more - when what the country needs is the exact opposite if anything is to get better.

Who will be helped the rich

Katie59

Here’s what happened in Norway when wealth tax was increased by centre left government

www.theguardian.com/world/2023/apr/10/super-rich-abandoning-norway-at-record-rate-as-wealth-tax-rises-slightly

The real question is, Is Norway diminished socially or economically by these people leaving?

I very much doubt that it is.

And don't tell me that Norway needs their taxes, because it doesn't.

We shouldn't be prepared to let the superrich hold us to ransom.

Well no one needs to worry just invite a few front bench MPs to look round your HQ and they'll soon drop any plans to increase taxes

www.nationalworld.com/news/politics/labour-will-no-longer-increase-tax-on-us-tech-giants-two-weeks-after-visiting-googles-uk-hq-4200229

A Labour Party spokesman told The Times the party had “no plans to raise digital services tax”

Which has absolutely nothing to do with the US company. Palantir hosting events at the LP conference this year!

If/when Sunak looses the election, he will resign from the party, which is why it is interesting to look at the manoeuvring going on within the Tory party and which will point the way to the shape of a future Tory party. Many Tories are resigning at the election, and so there are a number of candidate elections taking place and the successful candidates ideological position will give some indication of the battles that will be fought within the Tory party. Which wing is successful could shape the character of the Tory party for decades, and its ability, or not, to win elections.

MaizieD

And don't tell me that Norway needs their taxes, because it doesn't.

We shouldn't be prepared to let the superrich hold us to ransom.

Well the centre left government thought it was a good idea and they are getting a lot less tax than the wanted, their wealth tax does not affect only the super rich it goes right down the wealth scale.
Many countries have some form of wealth tax, it’s politically popular but does not actually raise much extra, the super rich can choose where to pay tax.
I agree with current Labour Party ideas and that does not include a wealth tax, any mention of wealth tax would deter many with modest wealth from voting Labour.

Whitewavemark2

If/when Sunak looses the election, he will resign from the party, which is why it is interesting to look at the manoeuvring going on within the Tory party and which will point the way to the shape of a future Tory party. Many Tories are resigning at the election, and so there are a number of candidate elections taking place and the successful candidates ideological position will give some indication of the battles that will be fought within the Tory party. Which wing is successful could shape the character of the Tory party for decades, and its ability, or not, to win elections.

Much as I want a Labour government asap the idea of a broken opposition party is not good for the country. Part of the trouble we’re facing now is a result of a weak Labour Party under Corbyn , no matter what his supporters say. He surrounded himself with inexperienced MP’s, admirable as many of them were.

Top economists have piled pressure on Keir Starmer to break with Tory spending plans amid anxiety over Labour’s policy direction if it wins the next election.

In a letter seen by The Independent, 70 prominent academics say they are “concerned” at the party’s programme for government and warn that failing to reverse cuts would “deepen the poverty and hardship many are already facing”.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/keir-starmer-policies-benefit-cuts-reeves-b2399406.html

MayBee70

Whitewavemark2

If/when Sunak looses the election, he will resign from the party, which is why it is interesting to look at the manoeuvring going on within the Tory party and which will point the way to the shape of a future Tory party. Many Tories are resigning at the election, and so there are a number of candidate elections taking place and the successful candidates ideological position will give some indication of the battles that will be fought within the Tory party. Which wing is successful could shape the character of the Tory party for decades, and its ability, or not, to win elections.

Much as I want a Labour government asap the idea of a broken opposition party is not good for the country. Part of the trouble we’re facing now is a result of a weak Labour Party under Corbyn , no matter what his supporters say. He surrounded himself with inexperienced MP’s, admirable as many of them were.

OMG can't believe anyone is still blaming the problems in the Labour party on Corbyn. One of the MPs who "surrounded him" was Keir Starmer!

Keir Starmer supported Corbyn as leader. Is that wrong as well now

Iam64

Keir Starmer supported Corbyn as leader. Is that wrong as well now

No but if Corbyn "surrounded himself with inexperienced MPs" one of those inexperienced MPs is now leader of the party

Glorianny

Iam64

Keir Starmer supported Corbyn as leader. Is that wrong as well now

No but if Corbyn "surrounded himself with inexperienced MPs" one of those inexperienced MPs is now leader of the party

So who would you like to lead the party?

Starmer was not one of the inexperienced MPs

The Tories have set the tone of the economy at the beginning of the next parliament, Starmer will have no choice but to continue for at least 2 yrs then according to the state of the economy he can change the balance.

The Tories plan is to make us pay for current spending in 2yrs time so don’t expect any give aways

Glorianny

Iam64

Keir Starmer supported Corbyn as leader. Is that wrong as well now

No but if Corbyn "surrounded himself with inexperienced MPs" one of those inexperienced MPs is now leader of the party

We are eight years on now Glorianny, he is hardly still inexperienced as an MP- and when he stood for parliament he had vast senior level working experience in previous roles as well as a long term involvement with the Labour Party.

Katie59

The Tories have set the tone of the economy at the beginning of the next parliament, Starmer will have no choice but to continue for at least 2 yrs then according to the state of the economy he can change the balance.

The Tories plan is to make us pay for current spending in 2yrs time so don’t expect any give aways

Starmer doesn't have to choose further cutbacks and 'austerity' at all. He can do what the tories have been doing for years and use the Bank of England's money creation powers. Only, instead of channeling all that created money to friends and party donors he could invest it in funding public services properly, pursuing Labour's green energy plans and generally doing a lot to mend the UK.

He certainly doesn't have to be bound by tory budgets. A parliament cannot bind its successors.

And there is no way that we have to pay for current spending. Taxation doesn't fund spending. Taxation arises from spending in the right places (the 'right places' not being into the pockets of friends and relatives...)

Starmer when elected CAN of course do whatever he wants as Truss did, but the very last thing he wants to do is loose investor confidence.
Currently we borrow around 100% of GDP each year that is forecast to rise to 110% in 5 yrs, with current spending plans. Labour could increase taxation to fund social improvement, unless there is an unexpected crisis I’m not expecting him to use QE.

In the long term our own OBR are predicting that due to an aging population our national debt will rise to 300% of GDP by 2070, a pretty daunting prospect.

Is Keir Starmer on a mission to kill off progressive politics in the UK?

Starmer often claims that his role in the CPS was one of fearless independence - although, at the time, only 21 percent of his own staff considered his actions to be "consistent with the CPS's values".

How could an experienced human rights lawyer declare himself a "committed Zionist", not only allying himself with a regime which has for decades violated international law, but pursuing relentlessly anyone in the party critical of such violations?

www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/uk-labour-keir-starmer-mission-progressive-politics-kill

UK Labour party: The curious case of Britain's forgotten 2017 election

Corbyn polled just a few hundred thousand fewer votes than Blair in 1997's landslide and still has higher approval ratings than Starmer. His erasure from UK political memory is telling

www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/uk-labour-curious-case-britain-forgotten-2017-election

Katie59

Starmer when elected CAN of course do whatever he wants as Truss did, but the very last thing he wants to do is loose investor confidence.
Currently we borrow around 100% of GDP each year that is forecast to rise to 110% in 5 yrs, with current spending plans. Labour could increase taxation to fund social improvement, unless there is an unexpected crisis I’m not expecting him to use QE.

In the long term our own OBR are predicting that due to an aging population our national debt will rise to 300% of GDP by 2070, a pretty daunting prospect.

Labour wouldn't have to borrow anything. You really should try very hard to accept that UK governments can, and do, use the Bank of England to create money for government spending.

And do stop throwing Liz Truss at me. I'm not suggesting anything like tax cuts for companies and the wealthy, which was the only idea she had and which would have done little to stimulate the economy.

Just remind me who actually won the 2017 election? And who enabled Johnson, the worst PM in living memory*, to gain a landslide victory at the next one? If Corbyn did well it was down to him saying he would scrap university fees. However, by the time of the people’s vote marches, the chants of oh Jeremy Corbyn had become where’s Jeremy Corbyn….
*till Truss…

If staunch Labour Party supporters have no faith in KS, why should those of us who are not impressed with the current direction of the Conservative Party switch our vote to Labour?

It seems to me that we will just have more of the same…

GrannyGravy13

If staunch Labour Party supporters have no faith in KS, why should those of us who are not impressed with the current direction of the Conservative Party switch our vote to Labour?

It seems to me that we will just have more of the same…

Because the more moderate Labour voters rate him highly, and their values are more akin to your own?