We’re rejoining the Horizon programme….

As I say, those it affects or might affect in the future will be delighted.

Urmstongran

As I say, those it affects or might affect in the future will be delighted.

That's not quite what you said, though .

Maisie, Erasmus came into the thread in the second post.

MaizieD

I'm not altogether sure where Erasmus comes in as it is Horizon that we are rejoining.

I find some posters' efforts to typecast the 'working class' as insular and unaspirational very depressing. But I suppose that was the Brexit mentality. 'If we don't want it why should anyone else have it?'

Oh god I’m too tired and getting muddled. Up from 2am with a sick dog - I must stop and get to sleep. Ignore all my posts.

Except to say that my daughter will be very pleased indeed.

Not at all MaizieD I can quite understand those who might be affected being very pleased what. I’m just pointing out the other side of the coin here. It won’t register with 99% of Red Wall voters. Believe me.

Urmstongran

Not at all MaizieD I can quite understand those who might be affected being very pleased what. I’m just pointing out the other side of the coin here. It won’t register with 99% of Red Wall voters. Believe me.

But why does it matter?

The Brexit issue is no longer something that the vast majority of voters consider terribly important, and frankly as we move closer (which is inevitable) it won’t really touch the sides.

Urmstongran

As far as I know a delivery driver on a zero hours contract doesn’t need a degree. Or Erasmus Whitewave. It’s horses for courses.

The delivery driver is probably delivering products developed, designed and made in Asia and sold by a massive conglomerate based in China, with the money for the manufacture and the sale and resale all going to out of Britain to those areas. Someone with a degree who benefitted from the internationality of Erasmus is likely to participate in the research, development, design, manufacture or sale of products, and could (if our government had the sense to encourage them) work on those skills in Britain.

Why do you think that the students should be prevented from broadening the international education and intellectual contacts that would make them fitter for boosting Britain's exports in a competitive world and improving the balance of our money flow? The rest of the world are all working very hard at absorbing knowledge, skills and networking fom each other, why should we ignore them and stick to gazing at our own own navels?

Urmstongran Horizon is all about research funding of all kinds. Any advances made in medicine, engineering or electronics benefits everybody Erasmus has been referred to, but it is Horizon funding that is coming back.

Such a hackneyed blinkered old fashioned argument too. One that i thought went out with twinsets and pearls. You forgot to mention about the middle classes wearing those.

Urmstongran

As I say, those it affects or might affect in the future will be delighted.

It will affect everyone, but not everyone is capable of foreseeing that.

My previous post mentioned Erasmus, as I was answering a post that mentioned it. The original post was about Horizon. That too is about contact with knowledgeable people from other countries, and pooling expertise to solve international concerns.

Being insular and saying "We don't need to join that, it won't do anything for A, B or C" is insular, arrogant and short-sighted. How can we predict who it will help in the future? or what breakthrough will come from a meeting between people from various backgrounds using their different viewpoints and skill sets? What do we gain by shutting ourselves into our own little corner?

Urmstongran

As far as I know a delivery driver on a zero hours contract doesn’t need a degree. Or Erasmus Whitewave. It’s horses for courses.

As far as I believe, no-one should be on zero hours contract!

I get your point, but being part of the Horizon programme is hugely important for international research and innovation. Whether you or that nice driver is aware of it, or not.

I’m delighted that we are rejoining Erasmus and Horizon. It may not affect me directly but I’m glad that it will benefit my fellow countrymen and women. Horizon doesn’t only benefit academia, it benefits tech companies and developers.

Blossoming

I’m delighted that we are rejoining Erasmus and Horizon. It may not affect me directly but I’m glad that it will benefit my fellow countrymen and women. Horizon doesn’t only benefit academia, it benefits tech companies and developers.

I'm sorry. The OP, and thread title, only refers to Horizon.

Has rejoining Erasmus been announced, too?

No, but M0nica mentioned that she hoped it would be reinstated and other posts carried on discussing that hope.

Urmstongran

As far as I know a delivery driver on a zero hours contract doesn’t need a degree. Or Erasmus Whitewave. It’s horses for courses.

With AI rolling out at an alarming rate it’s very likely that the tables will turn. If there was ever a time for Young people to learn a trade, it’s now.

www.cnbc.com/2023/07/31/ai-could-affect-many-white-collar-high-paid-jobs.html#

MaizieD

Blossoming

I’m delighted that we are rejoining Erasmus and Horizon. It may not affect me directly but I’m glad that it will benefit my fellow countrymen and women. Horizon doesn’t only benefit academia, it benefits tech companies and developers.

I'm sorry. The OP, and thread title, only refers to Horizon.

Has rejoining Erasmus been announced, too?

No, and neither has rejoining Horizon. No announcement has yet been made, the details are still being finalised.

I mentioned Erasmus as several previous posters, including you, had mentioned it.

Blossoming

MaizieD

Blossoming

I’m delighted that we are rejoining Erasmus and Horizon. It may not affect me directly but I’m glad that it will benefit my fellow countrymen and women. Horizon doesn’t only benefit academia, it benefits tech companies and developers.

I'm sorry. The OP, and thread title, only refers to Horizon.

Has rejoining Erasmus been announced, too?

No, and neither has rejoining Horizon. No announcement has yet been made, the details are still being finalised.

I mentioned Erasmus as several previous posters, including you, had mentioned it.

Has now😄 BBC headlined this morning. Our scientists must be soooo relieved. The thought of isolating ourselves was beyond ridiculous.

Now - let’s get going with Erasmus.

It's like Chinese Whispers, isn't it.

I mentioned Erasmus as several previous posters, including you, had mentioned it

I only mentioned it in in order to question why it was being discussed when the thread was about rejoining Horizon. Which, incidentally, has been supposedly under discussion at UK/EU level for some time.

As far as I am aware there have been no moves at all towards rejoining Erasmus and the UK has set up its own, inferior, scheme.

My apologies for 'muddying' the waters ny mentioning Erasmus when it is only Horizon that is returning. However as a final fling I would note that many students work as van drivers and in many other gig economy jobs to fund their way through their studies.

I recently had a taxi driver with a degree in Bio-informatics and read of a care worker with a degree in Language and Linguistics. As a PhD student DS was also a warehouse worker for Tesco.

But let us return to Horizon, which may well help fund reearch posts for those no longer able to get E***** funds

Well said, Elegran.
It's very positive that we will rejoin Horizon. It was stupid to vote to abandon it. Will we now rejoin as an associate though? Urmstongran informs us that red wall voters are not interested in the enormous benefits we as a country had as EU member because these benefits didn't directly affect them. What an insular, negative and damaging attitude. Thank goodness we are not all red wall voters then.

👀

Rishi Sunak
@RishiSunak
·
16m
I have always championed our world-leading scientists and innovators.

We’re joining Horizon on improved financial terms, increasing the benefits to UK scientists with better value for money for the British taxpayer.

All UK scientists can start applying today.

Urmstongran

This will doubtless delight the middle classes.
The working class not so much. Many don’t even register what Erasmus is - if you drive a van, are a plumber or painter and decorator it won’t even cross your mind.

Erasmus didn’t benefit all, whether you speak the language or not. DD who speaks fluent French, was unable to get Erasmus funding. Eventually, her year at a French University was funded by us. It was a struggle for us but it did benefit her hugely.

MaizieD

It's like Chinese Whispers, isn't it.

I mentioned Erasmus as several previous posters, including you, had mentioned it

I only mentioned it in in order to question why it was being discussed when the thread was about rejoining Horizon. Which, incidentally, has been supposedly under discussion at UK/EU level for some time.

As far as I am aware there have been no moves at all towards rejoining Erasmus and the UK has set up its own, inferior, scheme.

Most people were saying that Erasmus was a good thing too. Not ‘Chinese
Whispers’ - just widening the discussion a bit. Why is it bothering you so much?

According to the BBC part of the Brexit deal was that we would have associate membership when we formally left Europe in 2020. We were not included at that point, however, because of disaagreement over the Northern Ireland Protocol. Now the latter has been resolved there is no reason why we shouldn’t rejoin Horizon, subject to ratification by EU member states, as it was never the intention to leave.

I don’t think remainers should get excited, therefore that it means a return to the EU. It is however brilliant news for the scientific community and ultimately for all of us as research projects and knowledge are shared. It can only be advantageous for us all. A cording to The Sunday Times it doesn’t look as if we will be paying in more than we take out in funded research projects which we can start applying for.

So The Pioneer Programme as plan B clearly never got off the ground nor was good enough, just like everything to do with Brexit.

I am very clear that closer working is going to happen - it is inevitable.

But it was never made clear at the time of the referendum just how disastrous voting leave would be if it resulted in us being excluded from things like Horizon. The first thing that happened was the medicines agency leaving this country; that’s gone fir good now. It still isn’t going to be as easy for EU scientists to work here but at least is a step in the right direction.

I see Donelan is waxing lyrical about the massive advantages that Horizon is going to bring to U.K. scientists 😄😄 honestly talk about reinventing the wheel.

I am unclear who she thinks is listening to her as we all knew that leaving such a prestigious and productive partnership was a disaster, but they didn’t listen did they? I wonder how much tax payers money they wasted through the whole debacle?