State of Chaos: BBC2

I don't know if I can bear to watch it. I began, but my blood pressure shot up. I'll have to watch in bite size portions. Part of my anger is directed at Kuenssberg herself: as you said MayBee why didn't she (and Nick Robinson, for instance) ask some decent questions! Maitlis said they had experts queuing up to explain why it was a stupid idea and then searched for half an hour to find one person willing to defend it. I'd almost forgotten the lies and obfuscation.

Parliament voted to have a referendum, knowing the result could go either way. Govt should have had a plan if vote was to leave. It wasn't up to only those who supported leave. Govt didn't have a plan because they wanted and expected remain. They campaigned for remain, sending leaflets out to everyone urging them to vote remain. Talk of emergency budgets etc, none of which came to pass. Despite this the majority voted leave. Cameron fault no plan. Then he p***ed off

SpringsEternal

I don't know if I can bear to watch it. I began, but my blood pressure shot up. I'll have to watch in bite size portions. Part of my anger is directed at Kuenssberg herself: as you said MayBee why didn't she (and Nick Robinson, for instance) ask some decent questions! Maitlis said they had experts queuing up to explain why it was a stupid idea and then searched for half an hour to find one person willing to defend it. I'd almost forgotten the lies and obfuscation.

I thought I’d struggle with it because I dislike Kuenssberg, especially after the way she used to fawn over Johnson, but I found it riveting. And to think that, the very people that gave us Brexit were then responsible for our lives when the pandemic struck and they were too busy trying to sort Brexit out to notice what was happening in China. And I’m still furious that in the main debate the BBC gave Johnson the last words even though Ruth Davidson and Sadiq Khan had given a much better argument for remaining. Imo his three word meaningless sound bite won it. I still don’t really understand why Johnson left the leadership contest after Cameron quit. To think that Cameron called for a referendum because he was so scared of UKIP only for his party to morph into UKIP and destroy itself. If I was a Conservative voter I’d never forgive Cameron for his cowardice.

What peeves me about Kuenssberg is the fact that she parroted the lies told by the leave campaign, Johnson and Baker etc, knowing full well that they were lies.

It makes for very poor journalism and badly lets their readers/listeners down.

Do you remember The Sun's headline when Johnson decided he was going to head the Leave campaign?

Out - for himself!

Johnson gambled that this was the way to Number 10 - and thanks to Cummings, he got there.

I shall never cease to be angry and disappointed at the result of the referendum. And I also blame Cameron for not standing up to the UKIP brigade.

The real mistake was acting on the result of the referendum. They should have kept it as an advisory vote, as it should have been. Our democracy has never been driven by referenda - Boaty McBoatface tells you why. The 52/48% result should have been the basis for an investigation into people's reasons for voting and what changes could be made to our membership to improve people's perception of it.

I would just add that our local council wants a "meaningful" majority of at least 60/40% if they ask residents to vote on parking permits. I would have thought that the political future of the country was rather more important and would definitely need a meaningful majority.

It was Cameron who said the government would do what the people wanted, more fool him. May was out of her depth. The Buffoon simply used it all to advance his career. Then Truss messed up big time. Sunak is a caretaker. Labour seem to be inching towards cooperation with the EU which we desperately need after all the anti-EU propaganda aimed at pleasing the ERG and Little Englanders.

Some very strange comments on here, not a surprise re Politics, and having to strain memories by going back a few years.

For MaiziedD and her (ludicrous) "Ms Kuenssberg has previously not been noted for her impartiality", I presume this is because LK was one of several who shredded lame duck Corbyn in various i'views (it was hardly difficult), and it hasn't been forgotten. Well, she's also embarrassed Tories and LibDems by tough questioning, but folk see WHAT THEY WANT TO SEE on such shows, not what actually occurs.

Andrew Neil when at BBC was regarded as "right wing" and a "Brexiteer", but he regularly shredded Tories (as well as Corbyn & Livingstone), BJ was too scared to actually do a 2019 i'view with him after previous experiences, and he almost reduced chief Brexit journo James Delingpole to tears on 'This Week' one night, but still some biased viewers keep spouting the same nonsense.

As for Hammond, he was a major Remain fan, (as was the hapless Mrs May) saddled with negotiating the "will of the people" through a Commons that was hopelessly split. I'd check what he says carefully if he remarked that the sun is shining.

If people don't like the Brexit concept (quite understandable) it's odd that Corbyn doesn't get more blame, as his lukewarm attitude in the 2016 campaign speeches hardly helped :- "well, it's our official policy" (Remain) "but I've never liked the EU, and it's a major institution of Capitalism, so vote for it if you must".
If you look at the data, the Brexit win could be put at the door of several million Labour voters who voted Leave despite their official policy?

[NB -- to be clear, after many voting decades, I have no faith in any politicos, any badge, having seen so much corruption and incompetence over many years]

Here's another example of people with faulty memory :- 'winterwhite' said "what was intended as an ‘advisory’ straw-poll type referendum " . . .well, it never was. That expensive glossy brochure produced by Dave & George, sent to every UK household, strongly recommended the Remain position, and DID say "use your vote carefully, the result WILL govern our policy".

I presume they were so confident of their campaign, and the expected result (to them) that Dave didn't bother to insist on a chunky majority for such a change, perhaps 57.5 to 42.5, but the actual campaign was awful, and like so many Westminster-bound politicos (the Islington clique in Labour is another) he didn't realise the depth of feeling in the Midlands and North.

That vote was SUPPOSED to answer the massive rise in UKIP popularity (people have forgotten all the Council wins they got round the country) and then confirm that we should indeed Remain, but was undermined by incompetence, no surprise.

Still, at least we hadn't gone into 2 pointless wars, (Bliar), and sold off half our Gold Reserves at bargain prices (Brown).

I suggested many years ago that we should contract out our Govt to somewhere sensible, say Holland or Denmark, as they could do a much better job on perhaps 2 days a week. I've seen little since to change that opinion.

DrWatson

Some very strange comments on here, not a surprise re Politics, and having to strain memories by going back a few years.

For MaiziedD and her (ludicrous) "Ms Kuenssberg has previously not been noted for her impartiality", I presume this is because LK was one of several who shredded lame duck Corbyn in various i'views (it was hardly difficult), and it hasn't been forgotten. Well, she's also embarrassed Tories and LibDems by tough questioning, but folk see WHAT THEY WANT TO SEE on such shows, not what actually occurs.

Andrew Neil when at BBC was regarded as "right wing" and a "Brexiteer", but he regularly shredded Tories (as well as Corbyn & Livingstone), BJ was too scared to actually do a 2019 i'view with him after previous experiences, and he almost reduced chief Brexit journo James Delingpole to tears on 'This Week' one night, but still some biased viewers keep spouting the same nonsense.

As for Hammond, he was a major Remain fan, (as was the hapless Mrs May) saddled with negotiating the "will of the people" through a Commons that was hopelessly split. I'd check what he says carefully if he remarked that the sun is shining.

If people don't like the Brexit concept (quite understandable) it's odd that Corbyn doesn't get more blame, as his lukewarm attitude in the 2016 campaign speeches hardly helped :- "well, it's our official policy" (Remain) "but I've never liked the EU, and it's a major institution of Capitalism, so vote for it if you must".
If you look at the data, the Brexit win could be put at the door of several million Labour voters who voted Leave despite their official policy?

[NB -- to be clear, after many voting decades, I have no faith in any politicos, any badge, having seen so much corruption and incompetence over many years]

You obviously don’t follow these threads because some of us have never held back from condemning Corbyn for his lacklustre support for vote remain. Time and time again I’ve referred to the chants of where’s Jeremy Corbyn on the people’s vote marches. As for remembering the events of the past few years, they’re imprinted in my memory. I sometimes wish they weren’t! It’s also been pointed out many times that the referendum was called because of Cameron’s fear of UKIP.

Whitewavemark2

I blame Cameron’s government for a huge amount.

Austerity which led to Brexit.

His cowardice in the face of Farage which led to the referendum.

And his walking away which led to the chaos we saw in last nights programme.

I absolutely agree.

Whitewavemark2

What peeves me about Kuenssberg is the fact that she parroted the lies told by the leave campaign, Johnson and Baker etc, knowing full well that they were lies.

It makes for very poor journalism and badly lets their readers/listeners down.

I was sitting shouting at the TV, asking Kuennsberg why she hadn't asked these questions/discussed these doubts at the time. But, we must remember that during this nightmare, unreal period of politics, the BBC was known as The Brexit Broadcasting Company, it is only very recently, that there is even discussion about it, let alone criticism. As for Nadine Dorries and her doe eyed adoration of Johnson......nauseating.

For MaiziedD and her (ludicrous) "Ms Kuenssberg has previously not been noted for her impartiality", I presume this is because LK was one of several who shredded lame duck Corbyn in various i'views

Don't be silly.