State of Chaos: BBC2

I've just finished watching this MayBe, I had forgotten so much about the details, I think because so much has happened and keeps on happening, it's been quite difficult to keep up to speed.
Looking forward to forthcoming episodes, the sheer power of these people and how it affects the rest of us is a cautionary tail indeed.

MayBe Yes, you were right about May and the two SPADs.
Interesting how Gove and Johnson looked worried when they learned the result.

I can’t believe that so much of our constitution was trashed, country run by a wing and a prayer and the lies!!

I haven't seen it yet. But, Ms Kuenssberg has previously not been noted for her impartiality when it came to reporting the ongoing political news. Maybee's question about why didn't journalists ask about 'the plan' straight away is very valid. Why did they keep quiet about the utter fiasco that was the 2016 referendum? And why nothing of a searching journalistic approach over the past 7 years?

She now seems to be deserting the sinking tory ship pretty sharpish though...

There seems to be a recent rush of quite high profile publications making plain the utter shambles that are our governing institutions; Ian Dunt's analysis of 'Westminster', Chris Bryant on 'standards' and now Rory Stewart saying that you wouldn't run a fish and chip shop in such an inefficient way.

Whitewavemark2

I can’t believe that so much of our constitution was trashed, country run by a wing and a prayer and the lies!!

I hate to say 'I told you so' but I did frequently mention it at the time.

And self righteous Steve Baker!!

‘to think we lived through all this’ is exactly what we both thought.
It was staggering to realise so starkly that BJ didn’t care one way or the other about Brexit but just wanted to Win.

But we didn’t get an answer to the question of How did what was intended as an ‘advisory’ straw-poll type referendum become the inviolable will of the people. That was the huge mistake of the summer of 2016. Did no one say Hang on a minute. I blame David Cameron for that

I blame Cameron’s government for a huge amount.

Austerity which led to Brexit.

His cowardice in the face of Farage which led to the referendum.

And his walking away which led to the chaos we saw in last nights programme.

I watched this too and was impressed with it. It was obvious on Brexit night that neither Boris nor Gove expected or wanted that result. A case of 'be careful what you wish for'.

One of the most interesting sections was when Philip Hammond was talking about the prorogue of parliament in 2019 I thought. His horror (still) at the way it happened, and how wrong he thought it was was very compelling.

The courts agreed with him. Checks and balances - absolutely vital which the government would weaken if they could.

There's an interesting web site called 'The Brexit Witness Archive', a series of interviews with leading figures of the time. Phil Hammond's is very interesting.

Here he is on May's first conference speech where she ruled out everything except a very hard break from the EU

Look, what happened, I was completely stunned by the speech that she made at the Conservative Party Conference in October 2016. I hadn’t seen the relevant part of it in advance. I’d had no input to the speech. Nick Timothy kept me completely away from it. I did see some text on the economy the day before, but I had no idea that she was going to describe Brexit in the hardest possible terms.

I was absolutely horrified by what I was hearing. All I remember thinking was, ‘There will be a television camera that will be on your face. If you move a muscle, it will be the story on the front page of every newspaper tomorrow.’ I remember I wasn’t even really listening to her. I was just sitting there. I remember exactly where I was sitting: on the end of a row, to the side of the stage, looking up diagonally at the stage, looking up at her. I just remember focusing my entire energy on maintaining a rictus half-smile, and trying not to show any reaction at all, and then get out of the room without speaking to any journalists. I was completely and utterly horrified by what I felt was almost a coup: a definition of Brexit without any proper Cabinet consultation at all.

ukandeu.ac.uk/brexit-witness-archive/philip-hammond/

winterwhite

‘to think we lived through all this’ is exactly what we both thought.
It was staggering to realise so starkly that BJ didn’t care one way or the other about Brexit but just wanted to Win.

But we didn’t get an answer to the question of How did what was intended as an ‘advisory’ straw-poll type referendum become the inviolable will of the people. That was the huge mistake of the summer of 2016. Did no one say Hang on a minute. I blame David Cameron for that

I think you’re wrong about BJ tho.
I don’t think he did want to win, I think he just wanted more backing for himself.Nobody looked more shattered than him the morning after the referendum results.
I believe that we’d all be horrified a lot of the time if we realised how incompetent our governments are.

I do think that we need to re-think the constitution. Some sort of PR would be a start, and the ability to take away the whip under some circumstances should be stopped.

Rory Stewart describes how it is almost impossible to vote against the government or even abstain by one if the governments MPs.

Casdon

One of the most interesting sections was when Philip Hammond was talking about the prorogue of parliament in 2019 I thought. His horror (still) at the way it happened, and how wrong he thought it was was very compelling.

I still don’t understand why that wasn’t the end for Johnson.

And, did I hear right when they said that Theresa May’s manifesto for her disastrous election was written by her and her two SPADs? Is that how the Conservative Party works?

I don't think so, isn't that why some resigned?

I wish we'd recorded it because we had a problem with the TV and humax box, and missed some. Presumably it will be on iPlayer.
For some reason all we could get was ITV, it kept changing channels without anyone touching the remote then refusing to let us watch anything other than some daft programme with Davina McCall! We had to unplug it all.

Whitewavemark2

And self righteous Steve Baker!!

Oh yes!! We did see him 😲

Callistemon21

Whitewavemark2

And self righteous Steve Baker!!

Oh yes!! We did see him 😲

Do watch it - it is so worth a watch.

I don’t like Kuenssberg, but this programme is good and a breath of fresh air after all the obfuscation we’ve had to put up with from the BBC.

Whitewavemark2

Callistemon21

Whitewavemark2

And self righteous Steve Baker!!

Oh yes!! We did see him 😲

Do watch it - it is so worth a watch.

I don’t like Kuenssberg, but this programme is good and a breath of fresh air after all the obfuscation we’ve had to put up with from the BBC.

Yes, we will, we watched most of it after our own mini state of chaos with the tv and box deciding that only ITV1 was fit to watch!

I think it's in three parts.

We missed this, thanks for starting the thread Maybee.

Whitewavemark2

I do think that we need to re-think the constitution. Some sort of PR would be a start, and the ability to take away the whip under some circumstances should be stopped.

Rory Stewart describes how it is almost impossible to vote against the government or even abstain by one if the governments MPs.

If anyone is interested, I'm working my way through this long report by the charity 'Justice' (posted by a barrister on twitter) on government challenges to the Rule of Law. It covers many concerns about the process of legislation.

From the Executive Summary:

The report finds that over the past decade and particularly in the last five years, the process of lawmaking has become less transparent, less accountable, less inclusive, and less democratic. Using the framework of the Venice Commission’s Rule of Law Toolkit, we assess the cumulative impact of these changes on our democracy against five rule of law benchmarks:

files.justice.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2023/08/31123029/JUSTICE-The-State-Were-In-Addressing-Threats-Challenges-to-the-Rule-of-Law-September-2023.pdf

It's a very interesting watch. I'd forgotten how poisonous Steve Baker was. Nadine was just as awful as ever, weeping bitter tears when beloved Boris dropped out of the leadership race while insulting Theresa May for trying to make something out of an impossible situation. I almost felt sorry for Matt Hancock being so shocked about being blatantly lied to about the proroguing = but then he did go on working for Boris so perhaps I'm not sorry at all.

The next one should have some interesting stuff about Dominic Cummings.

Isn’t Dominic Cummings in the process of setting up a new political party?

Worst PMs we have had this century - Cameron, May, Johnson, Truss. Now we have caretaker Sunak trying to rescue a defunct Tory government.