Just how stupid do the Tories think we are?

Iam64

Freya5, no you aren’t ‘sorry’ for believing I’m wrong. I’ve no problem with disagreements but I do have a problem with false apologies.

Dear Iam64, that's a bit ungracious. No-one thinks that Freya 5 was really sorry. Her "Sorry but" was nothing more than a very commonly-used preamble to saying that she disagreed with you. It was meant to facilitate a polite discourse.
Would you rather she started off with something like "You're talking Bo***cks..."

We disagree Bodach about the use of false apologies

Do the Tories think we are stupid? They have no reason to doubt this as thousands of UK citizens voted for Johnson in the full knowledge of his absence of integrity. So - they know for sure that there is stupidity a-plenty out there. They just need to find a way of tapping in to it .... maybe scrap some green policies and pretend to be on the side of the ordinary driver for instance.

A fundamental flaw of democracy is the need for politicians to promise to give people what they want and this encourages short term thinking - give them cake now and to hell with the future!

Latest rumour is that a Sunak intends to abolish inheritance tax.

Only about 41000 people paid inheritance tax in 2022/23 approx about 4% of the total of people leaving an estate.

Sunak will announce this with a huge fanfare if the rumours are true, and many people who don’t think it through will be excited by the prospect, but in truth 96% of people will never pay a penny in inheritance tax.

We disagree…….about the use of false apologies.

Hmm, I also had one, from Dinahmo.
So we’re in the same boat Iam.

Sunak seems to be making all sorts of policy announcements lately that have much more to do with his personal opinion, than anything discussed and decided by the cabinet, who seem to as much in the dark as the rest of the Tory party.

When we had proper government running the country, it was the minister responsible who announced the policy decisions, which had usually been thrashed out in cabinet, or at least with a group of cabinet members. All the ministers seem to do now is to try to clear up the muddle and mess of the PM.

Observer

It is thought that Sunak will announce the cancellation if the Manchester keg of the HS2 this week, as announcing this at party conference in Manchester would be like s………g on your hosts. It is bad enough to do it a week before you spend time there.

The whole HS2 is a mess Whitewavemark2 in my opinion.
I’d rather it hadn’t been thought up at all, but since it has I think it should carry on going ahead and all the legs of it completed.It was supposed to be part of the levelling up for the North, so it’s a slap in their face if it isn’t done.

Grant Shapps is laying the ground -

Iam64

We disagree Bodach about the use of false apologies

It was not a false apology its a polite way of saying I disagree with what you saidI agree with what Freya5 said about Starmer. He keeps changing his mind you don't know what he wants. He got a lot of freebies as leader same as when DPP bringing in rich donors selling Labour to highest bidder. He wanted a second job whilst in Corbyns shadow cabinet Corbyn put a stop to that. We need another Labour leader don't think Starmer is good enough.

Oreo

The whole HS2 is a mess Whitewavemark2 in my opinion.
I’d rather it hadn’t been thought up at all, but since it has I think it should carry on going ahead and all the legs of it completed.It was supposed to be part of the levelling up for the North, so it’s a slap in their face if it isn’t done.

I agree Oreo. We’ve spent about 100 billion on HS2 already, and apparently it will cost about another 8 billion to complete, presumably to Birmingham. It would be better if it had never been started and we’d spent that 100 billion on other things, but it’s been done and would be a terrible waste of money if it wasn’t continued now. Maybe the last leg to Manchester could be completed in the future.

Whitewavemark2

Sunak seems to be making all sorts of policy announcements lately that have much more to do with his personal opinion, than anything discussed and decided by the cabinet, who seem to as much in the dark as the rest of the Tory party.

When we had proper government running the country, it was the minister responsible who announced the policy decisions, which had usually been thrashed out in cabinet, or at least with a group of cabinet members. All the ministers seem to do now is to try to clear up the muddle and mess of the PM.

He is trying to show he would be a "Prime Minister" of change. But we do not vote for a Prime Minister or a Party, we vote for our represenative who should uphold the Manifesto they are standing on.

Watch that manifesto come into being. Basically, if they put in, as is being mooted, a cut in Inheritance Tax for the 4% of the extremely wealthy who actually pay it, it should, under the Salisbury Convention, be passed by the Lords. If the Tory Party gets in with a majority they are expected to be able to pass everything in their manifesto. Obviously, the same would apply to a Labour majority.

MerylStreep

^Keep people fearful and they’re easier to lead^
They certainly proved they could do that with Covid. Now they know they can more or less do what they want with you.

I'll second that, MerylStreep.

I see Braverman is still banging on to join Russia and Belarus outside of the EHCR.

Whitewavemark2

I see Braverman is still banging on to join Russia and Belarus outside of the EHCR.

I don’t understand, what does that mean?
I thought we were supporting Ukraine and want little if anything to do with Russia.
Oh the penny’s dropped.
European Convention on Human Rights.
Okay.
Is she? I didn’t know.

Basically, if they put in, as is being mooted, a cut in Inheritance Tax for the 4% of the extremely wealthy who actually pay it

It's not the extremely wealthy
It's anyone without a spouse or partner whose assets are over £325,000 or £500,000 if they leave their house to their children.

With house prices in parts of the country being well over that amount for a fairly modest property, that does not make a person a millionaire and certainly not extremely wealthy.

If only 4% pay it then they must be using loopholes.

Other countries seem to manage their tax affairs better than the UK even without IH.

Exactly Callistemon21 IHT hits far more than the top 4%

Callistemon21

^Basically, if they put in, as is being mooted, a cut in Inheritance Tax for the 4% of the extremely wealthy who actually pay it^

It's not the extremely wealthy
It's anyone without a spouse or partner whose assets are over £325,000 or £500,000 if they leave their house to their children.

With house prices in parts of the country being well over that amount for a fairly modest property, that does not make a person a millionaire and certainly not extremely wealthy.

If only 4% pay it then they must be using loopholes.

Other countries seem to manage their tax affairs better than the UK even without IH.

Legal loophole is perfectly OK, the “extremely” wealthy say over £10m would have business assets that can be transferred with little or no tax.
It’s personal wealth that gets taxed, gifts out of income aren’t taxed, a high income individual can transfer a lot that way, several other ways to minimize IHT

The extremely wealthy will, in all probability, not pay IHT as they will pay for the best advice available to avoid it and set up trusts etc.

As usual, it is those in the squeezed middle who will be the ones to pay.

DaisyAnneReturns

GrannyRose

* Stop taxes on eating meat.
* Stop taxes to discourage flying
* Stop us being forced to sort rubbish into seven bins.
* Stop compulsory car sharing.
* Stop expensive insulation upgrades

Only one of these, which he says he is cancelling, even exists or has been suggested. By stopping the last one, which will only be "expensive" relative to the neglect of the property so far, he will simply make the poorest poorer.

I think that’s only five. And two of them are definitely real. At least in terms of being considered. The bins one has sparked alot of debate at local authority level. And the insulation one was threatening to make many people homeless when their landlords had to stop renting out their houses because it was impossible for them to reach the required standard.

Callistemon21

The extremely wealthy will, in all probability, not pay IHT as they will pay for the best advice available to avoid it and set up trusts etc.

As usual, it is those in the squeezed middle who will be the ones to pay.

41000 paid IT in 2022/23

The fact remains that only 4% pay inheritance tax- so it is only affected a very tiny minority of people.

GrannyRose15

DaisyAnneReturns

GrannyRose

* Stop taxes on eating meat.
* Stop taxes to discourage flying
* Stop us being forced to sort rubbish into seven bins.
* Stop compulsory car sharing.
* Stop expensive insulation upgrades

Only one of these, which he says he is cancelling, even exists or has been suggested. By stopping the last one, which will only be "expensive" relative to the neglect of the property so far, he will simply make the poorest poorer.

I think that’s only five. And two of them are definitely real. At least in terms of being considered. The bins one has sparked alot of debate at local authority level. And the insulation one was threatening to make many people homeless when their landlords had to stop renting out their houses because it was impossible for them to reach the required standard.

None are government policy. It is all smoke and mirrors, and people are very aware of it being so.

Sunak has looked very foolish.

Cabowich

MerylStreep

Keep people fearful and they’re easier to lead
They certainly proved they could do that with Covid. Now they know they can more or less do what they want with you.

I'll second that, MerylStreep.

What are you both fearful of?

Whitewavemark2

So are you telling me that landlords should never have been worried about achieving a EPC of C for their properties? Well that’s a relief! How silly of them to think that might be necessary if it wasn’t government policy.

DaisyAnneReturns

Cabowich

MerylStreep

Keep people fearful and they’re easier to lead
They certainly proved they could do that with Covid. Now they know they can more or less do what they want with you.

I'll second that, MerylStreep.

What are you both fearful of?

DaisyAnnReturns
Your asking the wrong person when using the word fearful
That’s not me.
Im referring to the people who were scared shitless Re covid.
And by edicts given out by the government they saw exactly how people will obey.