Labour Party conference

MaizieD

Oreo

I found a good NHS dentist last year, he also does private work as well, I think many of them do both, same as doctors and consultants.

Dentists have never been part of the NHS. Like GPs. They own their practice and can take on NHS and private patients.

The problem is that they don't get paid enough for their NHS work any longer, so they don't take as many as they used to.

I think the government anticipated that the public would take up private dental insurance, and that would keep dentists in business. However, millions of people just can’t afford to pay, so the dentists haven’t recouped the NHS shortfall in private fees either. That’s why the poorest areas of the UK have the lowest number of dentists doing NHS work.

I think the government anticipated that the public would take up private dental insurance, and that would keep dentists in business. However, millions of people just can’t afford to pay

I wonder if it was a test run for rolling out a privatised health service.. a bit of a shame that the NHS dental patients didn't play ball...

It doesn't auger well for the tory dream of an inurance based privatised health service.

MaizieD

Oreo

I found a good NHS dentist last year, he also does private work as well, I think many of them do both, same as doctors and consultants.

Dentists have never been part of the NHS. Like GPs. They own their practice and can take on NHS and private patients.

The problem is that they don't get paid enough for their NHS work any longer, so they don't take as many as they used to.

My dentist doesn’t own the practice and isn’t a partner either.
He comes for 3 days a week to see NHS patients and 2 days a week to do private work.
Just to say, I live in a run down area where generally people don’t have all that much money.
I wanted to set the record straight about ‘Utopias’.You can still find dentists to take NHS patients tho I realise it isn’t how it used to be years ago.

Yes, you can still find dentists to take NHS patients Oreo because taking on new patients attracts a high fee compared to other treatments. If you think back a few years though, most people had 6 monthly dental checks, which prevented emergencies to a large extent. Most NHS dentists now offer urgent access only, they can’t afford to do routine check ups and cleans these days, it just doesn’t pay enough.

We have six monthly check ups, in fact the practice insist on it for NHS patients or you can be removed from their list.

I think you’ll find Casdon that there are no hard and fast rules and they differ from practice to practice, also you can be lucky or unlucky as if your dental practice wants to expand they get an extra dentist to come and do work so take on more patients.

Oreo

I think you’ll find Casdon that there are no hard and fast rules and they differ from practice to practice, also you can be lucky or unlucky as if your dental practice wants to expand they get an extra dentist to come and do work so take on more patients.

It’s a lottery Oreo, which means millions aren’t receiving routine dental care. Lucky for you if your local practice can offer you routine care - but that’s not good enough is it?

Bella23

GrannyGravy13

Where are they going to get the extra staff Whitewavemark2?

Have they got a magic staff tree ?

It takes years to train doctors and nurses.

You've taken the thoughts out of my head Granny Gravy.
First, they need extra places for the Dr's they are hoping to train,then recrute the right people. They need to persuade the newly qualified to stay on after doing their house jobs.
A Dr's early training is 6 years including Housejobs, if they do not do another degree which some do. So add on maybe another 4 years for increasing places and getting enough Senior staff to stay on and train in the Universities or on wards and you are looking at at least 10 years+.
I won't be holding my breath or probably not be here by the time it is resolved.

Just to clarify, 5 years to graduate as a doctor, 6 years if they intercalate (ie take a further degree during training) 4 years if they do post grad med ie after a first degree, masters or PhD. All do 2 years foundation before deciding on a specialism. GP training is 3 years, other specialisms are 5-8 years. This assumes that foundation doctors go straight on to training after their foundation years tbh most don't and some don't go on at all. Much as I want to cheer KS on I'm sceptical about offering overtime to help clear the waiting lists. Most doctors don't want to do overtime as they are knackered, those that will are already taking a locum shift (often via their own hospital rather than an agency) and get paid much more than their overtime rate. It is a fact that increasingly more junior doctors are asking for pt training posts and doing the odd locum shift. It increases their training time but gives them a better quality of life without too much of a financial hit (if at all). The answer is to pay doctors a decent salary and to look at why so many junior doctors are completely demoralised.

Rachel Reeves has announced that she will appoint a COVID Corruption Commissioner to try to recover the billions lost to waste and fraud.
I thought Angela Rayner's speech this morning was excellent.

Oh I do hope the covid corruption commissioner is given strong enough powers to really go after all the fraudsters.

foxie48 don’t they do unpaid overtime at the moment? So getting paid I would have thought is an incentive.

This sounds positive

“Ed Miliband says renewable energy law will stop Britain being held to ransom by Putin

In his speech tomorrow he'll outline plans for an Energy Independence Act - establishing the party's plan for publicly owned GB energy company”

Good to know that Labours plans to add VAT to private school fees are approved by 49% of the public, with only 18% disagreeing.

Whitewavemark2

Oh I do hope the covid corruption commissioner is given strong enough powers to really go after all the fraudsters.

foxie48 don’t they do unpaid overtime at the moment? So getting paid I would have thought is an incentive.

It depends where they work, England, Scotland, Wales and NI all have different contracts. but I don't think most claim for the odd hour or so added on a shift, just take it as part of the job. However, being called in on a day off, at weekend or during a booked holiday period is a different matter, they would get overtime for that. I'm pretty confident the locum rate is much better than overtime. In the old days, when hospital doctors worked ridiculous hours, they lived in and had the opportunity t get some sleep, that's not the case now, if you are doing nights, you are up all night, if you are on call, you are working. If you've done 4 x 12 hour night shifts, you really need time to recover as actually handovers don't count so it's probably a 13 hour shift. I've got skin in the game as DD is a hospital doctor so I get to hear what's it's really like!

Attlee

Rachel Reeves has announced that she will appoint a COVID Corruption Commissioner to try to recover the billions lost to waste and fraud.
I thought Angela Rayner's speech this morning was excellent.

This is the best move they can make and should include HS2.

Not include but be filled by!

Whitewavemark2

I do agree about the waiting lists, but assuming that clinicians want the best for their patients, then tackling the waiting list should be a priority if they want to save as many lives as possible.

The two issue can be deal with in tandem I would have thought. In fact they are separate issues.

It is the best way to go as it is finite. Eventually the lists would be under control. As this happens they should be able to get back to earlier diagnosis which generally takes up less medical time and costs less. If doctors can see the virtuous circle they may well be prepared to do some overtime.

But that would not wholly solve the NHS's problems.

I;ve posted this before ,we have no shortage of NHS dentists in my area .My recent course of treatment included a replacement front crown a lower front veneer ,2 extractions 2 hygienist appointments and 3 with the dentist.He is a fantastic dentist and I'm a nervous patient so that says something .Dental checkups are Free here as are eye checks .my course of treatment cost all of £230 .92 THE MAXIMUM THEY CAN CHARGE IS UNDER £400.
Had my eyes checked by doctors orders before a brain scan last November ,was recalled by the optician to check how they are now last week .NO CHARGE FOR THE CHECK
The Scottish government theory is catch problems early and they'll save a fortune in the future
Maybe WM could adopt the same system down south?

I think that the covid corruption commissioner is going to be kept very busy.

Public Accounts Committee report compared fraud & waste for 2 yrs before pandemic & Boris, to 2 following yrs when Sunak was Chancellor.

Fraud on govt departments quadrupled from £5.5 BILLION to £21 BILLION.

Full report below

publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm5803/cmselect/cmpubacc/1055/report.html

Labour will introduce and beef up more control over the water company’s if they do not comply with the law and sewerage is poured into our waterways

Company bonuses will be stopped.

If labours system had been in force last year 6 out of 9 company’s would have been hit and the directors lost their bonus.

If this doesn’t work further action will be needed.

Screw up the ratchet.

Here is a view from an independent media of Keir Starmer at conference.
@AaronBastani
Forget 'Corbynism without Corbyn', the policy u-turns from Labour in the last few months are extraordinary.

There are over 100,000 staff vacancies in the NHS and the apparent solution from Starmer is now...more overtime.

We have a housing crisis destroying the lives of millions, especially the under-45s, and the apparent solution is... getting 'tough' on developers. Labour wants to see 300,000 new homes built a year by developers - to break even we need 440,000.

Britain's productivity puzzle goes back 15 years (!), but apparently all that is needed is 'stability' and a well-coiffed PM to re-assure business to invest (if only we knew that sooner!) It's just as bizarre a vision of political economy as anything from Truss.

There was talk of Bidenomics influencing Labour not long ago, yet we have reached an extraordinary moment where a Democratic President in the White House has more belief in the power of government to change the lives of working people than those at the top of the Labour party.

It won't receieve much scrutiny from what passes for political media in this country but I am genuinely shocked at how little policy is being presented on these three key areas: housing, the NHS, and growth. To get into Number 10 I suspect that won't matter - but inside it most certainly will!

There are two serious flaws in Keir Starmer’s plan to fund public services by growing the economy.

Has Keir Starmer publicised plans for a new taxation structure for the UK? No. He has been courting businesses because he wants their donations. In turn, this means they’ll want tax breaks from him, or they’ll threaten to remove their financial support.

Firstly, economic growth doesn’t necessarily mean more money for the Treasury.

In order to put new public money into services, a responsible government (that isn’t borrowing) will need to tax a similar amount out of us all – and a responsible Labour government would ensure that such taxation is weighted to put most of the burden onto the rich and profitable businesses.

Worse still is this: Keir Starmer has no contingency plan if the economy does not grow.

Three times, in the interview with Victoria Derbyshire he was asked to explain what he would do then – and all three times, his only answer was that he believes the economy will grow.

Faith is a wonderful thing, but you can’t fuel the economy of a developed western nation on hot air and fantasy.

Se

I have some sympathy with what Bastani says in regard to Starmer & Reeve's approach to our economic problems.

However, when my attempts to explain how government funding actually works, how spending comes before taxation , how governments create money and how the 'debt' is actually other people's savings and investments, I am greeted with disbelief, or derision or just ignored. Even a bit of mild Keynesianism is held to be beyond the pale.

So, can you imagine what an uproar there would be in the media and among voters if Labour were to say they were just going to 'create' the money and they'd get it back from a massive boost to business and from taxation.

So, best to keep quiet about how it's really done...

Interesting, though. Nobody ever asks the tories 'How are you going to pay for it?' They can spaff £billions away with absolutely nothing to show for it and no-one turns a hair...

MaizieD agree wasteful spending on colossal scale - National Debt being pushed further and further into the future surely?

ronib

So presumably the incentive for doctors to work at the weekends will mean that all private patients will be denied treatment or treated in a less timely way?

The Doctors that see private patients are Consultants. Their contracts allow for one day a week (within 5 days) to be devoted to private practice, so it won’t impact on that at all! Working weekends does not increase the length of the working week, no more than it does with any other workers.

My local doctor is away on a course this week (he pronounces it curse) on sleep apnea. It's 8 or 9 hour days but at least he's in a good place, with interesting food. Corsica!. I told hm that he 's a jammy so and so and he understood me. (His English is very good)