Labour Party conference

To maizie

Casdon

GrannyGravy13

Whitewavemark2

GrannyGravy13

Where are they going to get the extra staff Whitewavemark2?

Have they got a magic staff tree ?

It takes years to train doctors and nurses.

Same place as the Tories are getting them presumably!

Visas for immigrant nurses and doctors, and of course more courses opened for doctor.

Trainee nurses work on the job.

My second cousin was employed to help nhs staff during covid when she was training to be a doctor. She said it gave her huge experience and an idea how nursing staff work and the pressure they are under.

Not sure there are queues of clinicians waiting to enter the U.K.

When this was suggested by the Conservatives there was uproar on a GN thread about poaching staff from the poorest countries and denying them health care.

All of sudden it’s a Labour Party policy and all is well…

I still have lots of contacts, and I know there will be a lot of returners, who retired or left the NHS because they were so disillusioned about the future, buried under a tsunami of patients and fearing their lot was going to get even worse, as it has done. I know three retired doctors myself who have said they will go back in the short term to help out their colleagues. Wiring list initiatives aren’t the answer long term, but if coupled with a sustained investment and training plan there is hope of improvement over the first five years in hospital care.
I’m a lot less optimistic about dentistry unfortunately, I think it’s gone too far for a recovery plan to succeed.

Waiting not Wiring -dread to think what a wiring list would be, maybe Orthodontics?

GrannyGravy13

Where are they going to get the extra staff Whitewavemark2?

Have they got a magic staff tree ?

It takes years to train doctors and nurses.

You've taken the thoughts out of my head Granny Gravy.
First, they need extra places for the Dr's they are hoping to train,then recrute the right people. They need to persuade the newly qualified to stay on after doing their house jobs.
A Dr's early training is 6 years including Housejobs, if they do not do another degree which some do. So add on maybe another 4 years for increasing places and getting enough Senior staff to stay on and train in the Universities or on wards and you are looking at at least 10 years+.
I won't be holding my breath or probably not be here by the time it is resolved.

I do agree about the waiting lists, but assuming that clinicians want the best for their patients, then tackling the waiting list should be a priority if they want to save as many lives as possible.

The two issue can be deal with in tandem I would have thought. In fact they are separate issues.

Labour promised to deal with the failing NHS the last time they were in power.

At the end of their tenure the NHS was the best in the world.

Have a little faith.

I'm wondering what we are going to hear about Labour's plans for Education this week. I think they said they will promise a bonus for newly qualified teachers who stay in post for two years? This might make a tiny difference I guess.
As for returnees to the profession, no one in their right mind wants the stress of dealing with poor discipline, ghastly inspections, continuous assessments, exams etc., so I don't think they will be seeing any of these ex teachers returning soon.

Casdon

GrannyGravy13

Whitewavemark2

GrannyGravy13

Where are they going to get the extra staff Whitewavemark2?

Have they got a magic staff tree ?

It takes years to train doctors and nurses.

Same place as the Tories are getting them presumably!

Visas for immigrant nurses and doctors, and of course more courses opened for doctor.

Trainee nurses work on the job.

My second cousin was employed to help nhs staff during covid when she was training to be a doctor. She said it gave her huge experience and an idea how nursing staff work and the pressure they are under.

Not sure there are queues of clinicians waiting to enter the U.K.

When this was suggested by the Conservatives there was uproar on a GN thread about poaching staff from the poorest countries and denying them health care.

All of sudden it’s a Labour Party policy and all is well…

I still have lots of contacts, and I know there will be a lot of returners, who retired or left the NHS because they were so disillusioned about the future, buried under a tsunami of patients and fearing their lot was going to get even worse, as it has done. I know three retired doctors myself who have said they will go back in the short term to help out their colleagues. Wiring list initiatives aren’t the answer long term, but if coupled with a sustained investment and training plan there is hope of improvement over the first five years in hospital care.
I’m a lot less optimistic about dentistry unfortunately, I think it’s gone too far for a recovery plan to succeed.

Thanks for this, Casdon, it does confirm what I was thinking. I know it won't be more than sticking plaster, but it would fill a bit of a gap.

Oh, Labour are going to solve the dentistry problem by getting teachers to supervise teeth cleaning sessions at school, aren't they?

I assume that the UK is till training dentists, isn't it? Is there a shortfall or do they all just all go private?

Would improving the NHS fee payments help? A retired dentist friend says that the fees were too low to make NHS work cost effective.

Bella23

GrannyGravy13

Where are they going to get the extra staff Whitewavemark2?

Have they got a magic staff tree ?

It takes years to train doctors and nurses.

You've taken the thoughts out of my head Granny Gravy.
First, they need extra places for the Dr's they are hoping to train,then recrute the right people. They need to persuade the newly qualified to stay on after doing their house jobs.
A Dr's early training is 6 years including Housejobs, if they do not do another degree which some do. So add on maybe another 4 years for increasing places and getting enough Senior staff to stay on and train in the Universities or on wards and you are looking at at least 10 years+.
I won't be holding my breath or probably not be here by the time it is resolved.

There are a lot of already trained doctors not currently working in the NHS, working less hours than they could to manage their stress levels, juniors who haven’t yet succeeded in obtaining training placements, overseas doctors already in the UK who want to work, etc. too though. What they have to have is confidence that there will be commitment and sustained funding. It will take years to get back to where we were in 2010, but it is possible.
If a left wing Labour supporter comes on this thread and says anything about Labour having a privatisation agenda by using private capacity to reduce waiting lists over the next few years though, they will be getting a virtual punch between the eyes from me, as that is an integral part of any plan to improve the NHS in the next few years.

The teeth cleaning idea has a big thumbs up from the School of Dental Surgeons.

MaizieD

Casdon

GrannyGravy13

Whitewavemark2

GrannyGravy13

Where are they going to get the extra staff Whitewavemark2?

Have they got a magic staff tree ?

It takes years to train doctors and nurses.

Same place as the Tories are getting them presumably!

Visas for immigrant nurses and doctors, and of course more courses opened for doctor.

Trainee nurses work on the job.

My second cousin was employed to help nhs staff during covid when she was training to be a doctor. She said it gave her huge experience and an idea how nursing staff work and the pressure they are under.

Not sure there are queues of clinicians waiting to enter the U.K.

When this was suggested by the Conservatives there was uproar on a GN thread about poaching staff from the poorest countries and denying them health care.

All of sudden it’s a Labour Party policy and all is well…

I still have lots of contacts, and I know there will be a lot of returners, who retired or left the NHS because they were so disillusioned about the future, buried under a tsunami of patients and fearing their lot was going to get even worse, as it has done. I know three retired doctors myself who have said they will go back in the short term to help out their colleagues. Wiring list initiatives aren’t the answer long term, but if coupled with a sustained investment and training plan there is hope of improvement over the first five years in hospital care.
I’m a lot less optimistic about dentistry unfortunately, I think it’s gone too far for a recovery plan to succeed.

Thanks for this, Casdon, it does confirm what I was thinking. I know it won't be more than sticking plaster, but it would fill a bit of a gap.

Oh, Labour are going to solve the dentistry problem by getting teachers to supervise teeth cleaning sessions at school, aren't they?

I assume that the UK is till training dentists, isn't it? Is there a shortfall or do they all just all go private?

Would improving the NHS fee payments help? A retired dentist friend says that the fees were too low to make NHS work cost effective.

Teeth cleaning sessions are a good idea, prevention is always better than treatment - catch them young.
The university dental schools are still training dentists, but the payment system has been decimated, so they can’t make a wholly NHS practice pay, as your friend says. My fear is that the NHS base in dentistry is now so low that it won’t be possible to attract people to start up new practices - many have lost all their dentists, their premises and equipment, and others are hanging on by a wing and a prayer. There’s also years worth of stored up dental issues for patients, many of whom have been without anything but emergency treatment for a long time. I hope I’m wrong.

I only caught a bit of it but I’m sure I heard that they were going to increase the number of NHS dental appointments available? I emailed one Labour MP the other week about something else and asked why no one seemed to be talking about the lack of NHS dental treatment available.

For the poor of which there are now many, many more. Dentist fees are something they can avoid, simply by not attending. The other issue I think that by not being able to visiting regularly, they are not providing a roll model for their children, thus piling up the issues for the future.

MayBee70

I only caught a bit of it but I’m sure I heard that they were going to increase the number of NHS dental appointments available? I emailed one Labour MP the other week about something else and asked why no one seemed to be talking about the lack of NHS dental treatment available.

What’s happening at the moment is that there’s a reasonable incentive to take on new patients, but dentists are paid less for checkups and treatments. So new patients take precedence over existing patients, it’s not the fault of the dentists themselves, they have no choice but to do this if they want their practice to survive. I know two who have taken early retirement in the last two years. My own dentist was brilliant, so kind and thorough, and he felt he was failing his long-standing patients - a really sad state of affairs.

How do they propose to increase NHS dental appointments ?

Do they intend to revise the scale of payments?

I realise that teeth cleaning sessions are not a bad thing, but I don't think that teachers will want that piled on top of the non teaching work that they already do...

Teaching assistants? This will probably only take place in primary school.

Imagine trying it in seniors😄😄😄

I think that what has been realised over the past decade or so is that oral health is vital for your health in general.

My theory was always was one of the reasons my mother lived to 101 as she had every tooth in her head extracted in her early twenties. 😄😄

Whitewavemark2

Teaching assistants? This will probably only take place in primary school.

Imagine trying it in seniors😄😄😄

I don’t know if they are still in place, probably not, but there used to be oral health workers attached to Health Promotion departments, and a big part of their role was education in schools, they went out and taught the children to clean their teeth, and gave each child a toothbrush and toothpaste (paid for by the manufacturers as free advertising for them) to get them started at home. I imagine a similar model would apply.

Yes I bet, Labour seem very keen to engage business wherever possible.

Whitewavemark2

The teeth cleaning idea has a big thumbs up from the School of Dental Surgeons.

But from teachers? Have they been asked?

Many early years settings (private day nurseries) do teeth brushing as a matter of course, not so much schools.

I found a good NHS dentist last year, he also does private work as well, I think many of them do both, same as doctors and consultants.

Am hoping that Labour come up with a good few workable policies but am not expecting miracles.

Whitewavemark2

Teaching assistants? This will probably only take place in primary school.

Imagine trying it in seniors😄😄😄

Nobody has the money to pay teaching assistants any more...

Oreo

I found a good NHS dentist last year, he also does private work as well, I think many of them do both, same as doctors and consultants.

Dentists have never been part of the NHS. Like GPs. They own their practice and can take on NHS and private patients.

The problem is that they don't get paid enough for their NHS work any longer, so they don't take as many as they used to.

Whitewavemark2

I think that what has been realised over the past decade or so is that oral health is vital for your health in general.

My theory was always was one of the reasons my mother lived to 101 as she had every tooth in her head extracted in her early twenties. 😄😄

Was that to make her more marriageable? Was it a birthday present from her parents! Gum disease can cause heart problems etc. We’ve got to do everything possible to prevent any illnesses that can be prevented. Dental check ups, Eye tests. They all play their part. And making sure that all children have at least one decent meal a day.