Israel, Hamas and now Hezbollah

Grany Hamas?

You are not lecturing other people on their sources are you Grany. That's quite breathtaking.

Grany oops I didn’t mean that you were Grany Hamas of course. Shall we try
Grany, what about the terrorist Hamas organisation? Etc

Neither side, the Holocaust or much later, Nakba, has a monopoly on misery. Now the genocide in Gaza.
The difference is how it is/ was reported. Most people would never had heard of Nakba. Google it.

tickingbird

Glorianny
^This idea that the violence is completely one sided really isn't supported by the evidence.*
And these deaths are ones with at least 2 witnesses, there will be more.

The violence two weeks ago was entirely one sided and any state having rockets fired into its territory on a regular basis is entitled to fire back.

You can excuse and deflect as much as you like but it doesn’t change the facts.

So killing a lot of people over a longer period of time is completely acceptable, it's only single acts of slaughter that count? Who knew???

TRIGGER WARNING

Glorianny
This is your wonderful freedom fighters, Hamas. The following is just one extract from Amnesty. The shootings, torture and murders of Palestinians by Hamas is well documented.

Atta Najjar, a former police officer under the Palestinian Authority who has a mental disability, was serving a 15-year prison term imposed by a military court after he was arrested in 2009 and subsequently convicted of “collaborating” with Israel. On 22 August 2014, he was taken out from the prison and executed.
“There were marks of torture and bullet shots on his body. His arms and legs were broken… his body was as if you’d put it in a bag and smashed it… His body was riddled with about 30 bullets. He had slaughter marks around his neck, marks of knives… And from behind the head – there was no brain. Empty… It was difficult for us to carry him… He was heavy, like when you put meat in a bag; no bones. His bones were smashed. They broke him in the prison,” said his brother, who retrieved the body from al-Shifa hospital morgue on 22 August 2014.

Israel have doubtless killed many Palestinians but for you to excuse and defend the butchers of Hamas is disgusting.

I didn’t see that MayBe70 but this is the same BBC which is refusing to describe Hamas as terrorists.
In any case it was perfectly obvious from reports from various journalists as well as newspaper pictures that an awful lot of people at the demonstration were sickeningly cheering them on for the mass slaughter of the young people at the music festival, simply because the youngsters were Jewish.

Hamas are butchers, barbaric murders, torturers and cowards hiding amongst civilians and hostages.

Israel is a Country defending itself.

I have posted repeatedly but it has been ignored by those who are Palestinian supporters (bearing in mind that in the last election in Gaza Hamas were elected as the ruling party…)

If Hamas were to hand over the Israeli and other foreign national hostages it could be a starting point for negotiations.

However this is not nor has it ever been their intention, they will not cease their barbarism until they have killed every Jew.

tickingbird

*TRIGGER WARNING*

Glorianny
This is your wonderful freedom fighters, Hamas. The following is just one extract from Amnesty. The shootings, torture and murders of Palestinians by Hamas is well documented.

Atta Najjar, a former police officer under the Palestinian Authority who has a mental disability, was serving a 15-year prison term imposed by a military court after he was arrested in 2009 and subsequently convicted of “collaborating” with Israel. On 22 August 2014, he was taken out from the prison and executed.
“There were marks of torture and bullet shots on his body. His arms and legs were broken… his body was as if you’d put it in a bag and smashed it… His body was riddled with about 30 bullets. He had slaughter marks around his neck, marks of knives… And from behind the head – there was no brain. Empty… It was difficult for us to carry him… He was heavy, like when you put meat in a bag; no bones. His bones were smashed. They broke him in the prison,” said his brother, who retrieved the body from al-Shifa hospital morgue on 22 August 2014.

Israel have doubtless killed many Palestinians but for you to excuse and defend the butchers of Hamas is disgusting.

I’m sorry but I can see no defence of Hamas in what Gloriananny has written. She’s just pointing out that when Palestinians are killed it doesn’t make the news.

MayBee70 Palestinian deaths do make the news.

ronib

GG13 it isn’t the job of The Jewish Chronicle to undertake security checks in this way - what are the relevant government departments/security services/police doing?

There are plenty of would be Hamas supporters in the UK you can be sure MI5 and GCHQ are monitoring them full time.
Despite that there still will be widespread disruption and probably a terror event in London.

I have the upmost sympathy for civilians in Israel and Gaza.

I have no sympathy for anyone who is aiding and abetting Hamas in any way shape or form.

If Hamas were to hand over the Israeli and other foreign national hostages it could be a starting point for negotiations.
That's a fair comment. I also think Hamas has to prove to the world that Israel's claim that the underlying Hamas objective is to drive Israel into the sea, is completely wrong. Basically, Hamas should stop doing the death chanting in London and elsewhere, as it doesn't help. In fact, it has the opposite effect, think about it.

Despite that there still will be widespread disruption and probably a terror event in London.
I sincerely hope not. 🙏

U.K.’ s current terror threat level is substantial

Germany has today advised its citizens to leave Lebanon, no doubt other Countries will follow.

tickingbird

*TRIGGER WARNING*

Glorianny
This is your wonderful freedom fighters, Hamas. The following is just one extract from Amnesty. The shootings, torture and murders of Palestinians by Hamas is well documented.

Atta Najjar, a former police officer under the Palestinian Authority who has a mental disability, was serving a 15-year prison term imposed by a military court after he was arrested in 2009 and subsequently convicted of “collaborating” with Israel. On 22 August 2014, he was taken out from the prison and executed.
“There were marks of torture and bullet shots on his body. His arms and legs were broken… his body was as if you’d put it in a bag and smashed it… His body was riddled with about 30 bullets. He had slaughter marks around his neck, marks of knives… And from behind the head – there was no brain. Empty… It was difficult for us to carry him… He was heavy, like when you put meat in a bag; no bones. His bones were smashed. They broke him in the prison,” said his brother, who retrieved the body from al-Shifa hospital morgue on 22 August 2014.

Israel have doubtless killed many Palestinians but for you to excuse and defend the butchers of Hamas is disgusting.

I have not defended Hamas I have said that failing to understand the issues will never result ina solution.
How interesting that you should use Amnesty who have condemned Israel as an apartheid state.
This from the report

Ibrahim Souri was shot in the face by Israeli police officers while using his mobile phone to film police patrolling the street from the balcony of his home in Jaffa, south of Tel Aviv, on 12 May.

In a verified video, one of the police officers is heard saying: “What is he holding?” Ibrahim Souri shouts in response: “I’m filming, isn’t that permitted? Shoot, it’s all recorded.” He later told Amnesty International: “I did not imagine that they would actually shoot. I thought I had rights, and that I was safe, in a democratic country.” Photographs reviewed by Amnesty International’s forensic pathologist and medical reports indicate he was most likely hit by a 40mm KIP, fracturing his facial bones.

Amnesty International also documented torture at the Russian Compound (Moskobiya) police station in Nazareth on 12 May. An eyewitness said they saw special forces beating a group of at least eight bound detainees who had been arrested at a protest:

“It was like a brutal prisoner of war camp. The officers were hitting the young men with broomsticks and kicking them with steel-capped boots. Four of them had to be taken away by ambulance, and one had a broken arm,” he said.

The lawyer of Ziyad Taha another protester detained at Kishon detention centre near Haifa on 14 May, said his client was tied by his wrists and ankles to a chair and deprived of sleep for nine days.

The report gives many more details about how Palestinians are treated you can read it here www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2022/02/israels-apartheid-against-palestinians-a-cruel-system-of-domination-and-a-crime-against-humanity/
It says
Amnesty International documented acts proscribed in the Apartheid Convention and Rome Statute in all the areas Israel controls, although they occur more frequently and violently in the OPT than in Israel. Israeli authorities enact multiple measures to deliberately deny Palestinians their basic rights and freedoms, including draconian movement restrictions in the OPT, chronic discriminatory underinvestment in Palestinian communities in Israel, and the denial of refugees’ right to return. The report also documents forcible transfer, administrative detention, torture, and unlawful killings, in both Israel and the OPT.

None of the above warranted the barbarism meted out by Hamas criminals on the civilians in Israel on 7/10/23

⬇️

GG13, nothing warrants the atrocities committed by Hamas and unless I've missed something, no-one is suggesting that. I think many of us are struggling to understand how the situation has come to this when it looked as if the things were more settled. I think it's interesting that our PM said "And we also recognise that the Palestinian people are victims of Hamas too. And that is why I welcome your decision yesterday that you took to ensure that routes into Gaza will be opened for humanitarian aid to enter,” This was said whilst offering support to Israel but with the added proviso of staying within the law. This is the stance that was taken by Biden and other Heads of state and I feel this represents how many of us feel. It is beyond doubt that Palestinians have been treated appallingly, it is not anti semitic to say that and it does not, in any way, excuse the vile behaviour of Hamas. I am just stating well documented facts.

GrannyGravy13

None of the above warranted the barbarism meted out by Hamas criminals on the civilians in Israel on 7/10/23

No. It did not.

Tickingbird I feel for you. It must be very difficult for you to read this thread. And to see on the news what has happened. And undoubtedly Saturday will be difficult as a big march is planned.

GrannyGravy13

None of the above warranted the barbarism meted out by Hamas criminals on the civilians in Israel on 7/10/23

No one has said that it did.

I don't think saying that the actions of Israel don't warrant the actions of Hamas is missing the point totally. We know apartheid states don't work, we know that they result in terrorism, we know that any long term solution requires change. That's apart from the issue of human rights.

After the holocaust I can totally understand why Israel is so protective of its borders.

Palestinians serve in the Israeli army (approx 5,000 currently) Palestinians live and work in Israel.

I think your constant cries of apartheid state are meaningless sound bites, and not representative of modern Israel.

Palestinians are allowed to cross into Israel to do menial low paid work.

silverlining48

Palestinians are allowed to cross into Israel to do menial low paid work.

According to Quara 20% of Israel’s population is Palestinian/Arabic, they work in many occupations hospitality, healthcare, construction, manufacturing and many others.

It’s easy to verify curtesy of Google

Added to which Approximately 70,000 Palestinians commute into Israel daily