Israel, Hamas and now Hezbollah

No problem, Galaxy. I had a post deleted for anti-semitism. With hindsight, the deletion was justified and I apologised for making a thoughtless comment. Anybody who has read any of my comments on GN would know that I abhor any kind of racism (including anti-semiticism), but it didn't stop a mini pile-on.

It makes no difference.

It makes a difference if it stops more killings.
And more anger would have been stoked.

Also, if it had been Israel, other countries may have been a lot more likely to join the conflict in some way as well.

Growstuff
I know there are posters who dismiss the Guardian, but Freedland is a practising Jew and knows what he's talking about

I read the article and I agree and said on the first thread that Hamas knew what the reaction would be and I feared they were setting a trap. We can only wait and see how this dreadful situation proceeds. Putin must be rubbing his hands with glee.

Freedland echoes my thoughts on the subject exactly.

The world should be urging restraint.

“Netanyahu, has overseen a period of corruption and cronyism …. That has turned the machinery of the state to rust”

Where have I seen that before 🤔. Too close to home is that statement!

The summit between the USA and EU might result on pressure to bear down on Netanyahu to act with restraint, and force the Israelis to allow the convoys to cross to Gaza.

They represent a mighty force if they work closely together.

I've just read the Jonathan Freedland article in the Guardian, it's been mentioned on radio 4 news too with what Netanyahu intends for Gaza once they've razed it to the ground. It's totally chilling and tbh it's made me feel sick. Totally inhumane, he's an evil man with a lot of blood on his hands. Not just that of Palestinians but also that of Israelis.

So - Ben Gvir has said that once Hamas has been destroyed, the Israeli state will withdraw from Palestine completely - and by that he means no utility provision or trade between the two countries. There will be no passing points - in effect the Palestinians will be locked into a huge compound. Israel controls the sea around Palestine.

I do hope Likud is defeated before this stated intention of genocide is enacted.

“For all these reasons, Israelis can’t wait until the war is over. Changing leaders in wartime is not unheard of: it worked out well for Britain in 1940. Admittedly, such a move is unlikely, given Netanyahu’s absolute control of his party. But Israel needs to be rid of the man who led them to this bleak crossroads, and to replace him with someone who will take the right path – one not paved by the country’s mortal enemies.”

I agree that Netanyahu should and will be replaced, he is not only leader of his party but of the coalition that rules the country. It’s the extreme religious zealots that have moved Israel away from any kind of reasonable secular government, unless they can be marginalized nothing will change.

As a democracy that elects its leaders by PR it’s hard to see how that will happen.

There's a long article on the BBC website about Israeli settlers who are attacking Palestinian people in the West Bank, clearly with a view to getting them to leave their homes. This has been going on for a long while and is nothing to do with Hamas, just illegal expansion into Palestinian land which is going on unchecked.

As the occupying power, Israel has the total responsibility for human rights in Gaza and the West Bank.

The first trucks have been allowed through. Apparently 100 trucks a day are needed to keep up the fresh water supply.

Getting humanitarian aid through is a good thing.

Thanks for the JFreedland article.
Apologies for letting my irritation get the better of me. It’s hard to continue to argue for recognition that the citizens of Gaza, West Bank and Israel USA be helped to find ways forward when faced with intransigence

There’s a very thoughtful, measured article by the excellent military analyst, Sean Bell. It’s on Sky News which won’t let me copy a link, I’m afraid. The headline is below:

Analysis

All sides know there is no military solution, yet in the absence of a political determination to chart a course for peace, the politicians take the easy route, hide behind inflamed rhetoric, and the casualties mount.

By Sean Bell, military analyst

Whitewavemark2

As the occupying power, Israel has the total responsibility for human rights in Gaza and the West Bank.

Israel is not the “occupying power” Gaza is an autonomous part of the state of Israel, Hamas occupy Gaza and have excluded Israel for many years.

No Gaza has an administrative authority, but Israel is the military authority.

Israel has shown who is in charge this week. A couple of switches and the Palestinians are without any means to sustain life.

This is part of the Guardian article by Jonathon Freedland for anyone who wants to read it! I'd read the whole article though!
"Prime minister for most of the last 15 years, Netanyahu has been an enabler of Hamas, building up the organisation, letting it rule Gaza unhindered – save for brief, periodic military operations against it – and allowing funds from its Gulf patrons to keep it flush. Netanyahu liked the idea of the Palestinians as a house divided – Fatah in the West Bank, Hamas in Gaza – because it allowed him to insist that there was no Palestinian partner he could do business with. That meant no peace process, no prospect of a Palestinian state, and no demand for Israeli territorial concessions.

None of this was a secret. In March 2019, Netanyahu told his Likud colleagues: “Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas … This is part of our strategy – to isolate the Palestinians in Gaza from the Palestinians in the West Bank.”

This is why Hamas was able to commit the atrocities they did, Netanyahu was complicit in allowing them to gain strength and confidence because it suited his purpose. This is why he is being blamed by many Israelis for the deaths and the hostage taking. Suddenly the idea that he might have ignored the warnings with regard to an attack by Hamas seems less like a conspiracy story. He doesn't want Gaza but he does want to destroy Gaza. Actually I think what he wants is to be able to continue annexing more of the West Bank.

I think Netanyahu wants to totally destroy the network of tunnels that Hamas use to hide in and store and move rockets etc. These tunnels are steel lined with heavy reinforced, vault like doors. It would go a long way to massively reduce their capabilities but it’s a very difficult and dangerous undertaking as they’re probably booby trapped.

I think you are correct tickingbird

Whitewavemark2

No Gaza has an administrative authority, but Israel is the military authority.

Israel has shown who is in charge this week. A couple of switches and the Palestinians are without any means to sustain life.

Hamas was and is in charge of the welfare of the Palestinian population, they spent much of the aid it received on arms to attack Israel. If they had not done that thousands of lives would have been saved.

But I suppose you approve of that!.

I think Whitewavemark2 doesn’t know much about this situation at all.

LizzieDrip

There’s a very thoughtful, measured article by the excellent military analyst, Sean Bell. It’s on Sky News which won’t let me copy a link, I’m afraid. The headline is below:

Analysis

All sides know there is no military solution, yet in the absence of a political determination to chart a course for peace, the politicians take the easy route, hide behind inflamed rhetoric, and the casualties mount.

By Sean Bell, military analyst

This is the link:

news.sky.com/story/israel-hamas-war-is-a-direct-result-of-a-failure-of-politics-and-diplomacy-and-politicians-are-making-things-worse-12988322

One sentence in particular resonated with me:

"In the absence of true political leadership, the violence continues - taking sides does not help, it simply hardens resolve."

Unfortunately ground forces will have to go into Gaza as bombing alone won’t get rid of hamas.
Rather than go into tunnels when they find them they will be more likely to destroy them I would have thought.
I think Gaza will be on it’s own after this is all over, this is what hamas has brought about.

Many thanks for posting the link Growstuff👏 I’m pretty rubbish when it comes to links!

Yes, that same sentence resonated with me too.

Katie59

Whitewavemark2

No Gaza has an administrative authority, but Israel is the military authority.

Israel has shown who is in charge this week. A couple of switches and the Palestinians are without any means to sustain life.

Hamas was and is in charge of the welfare of the Palestinian population, they spent much of the aid it received on arms to attack Israel. If they had not done that thousands of lives would have been saved.

But I suppose you approve of that!.

Silly and offensive statement.