Israel, Hamas and now Hezbollah

tickingbird

I think Netanyahu wants to totally destroy the network of tunnels that Hamas use to hide in and store and move rockets etc. These tunnels are steel lined with heavy reinforced, vault like doors. It would go a long way to massively reduce their capabilities but it’s a very difficult and dangerous undertaking as they’re probably booby trapped.

Well they are certainly his stated aims.

If/when Israel do go in on the ground it will be with overwhelming force, they will pound the rubble to dust, the only way to prevent this will be for the Palestinians to remove Hamas, it’s their choice.

Hamas are relying on human shields and international pressure to stop Israel, if that happens Hamas has won.

Whitewavemark2

tickingbird
I think Netanyahu wants to totally destroy the network of tunnels that Hamas use to hide in and store and move rockets etc. These tunnels are steel lined^with heavy reinforced, vault like doors. It would go a long way to massively reduce their capabilities but it’s a very difficult and dangerous undertaking as they’re probably booby trapped.
Well they are certainly his stated aims.

Hard to argue with those aims. Anything that helps rid the Palestinians of Hamas is good but, unfortunately, before they can do this they have to eliminate the threat of a trap. This is why it’s being flattened first. Unfortunately the innocents are the ones that suffer.

If/when Israel do go in on the ground it will be with overwhelming force, they will pound the rubble to dust, the only way to prevent this will be for the Palestinians to remove Hamas, it’s their choice.

How do you propose they do that?

^Katie59*

If/when Israel do go in on the ground it will be with overwhelming force, they will pound the rubble to dust, the only way to prevent this will be for the Palestinians to remove Hamas, it’s their choice.

If only it was that simple. Hamas are no friend to the Palestinians but removing them is beyond their capabilities it would seem. They terrorise anyone that isn’t for them.

tickingbird

Whitewavemark2

tickingbird
I think Netanyahu wants to totally destroy the network of tunnels that Hamas use to hide in and store and move rockets etc. These tunnels are steel lined^with heavy reinforced, vault like doors. It would go a long way to massively reduce their capabilities but it’s a very difficult and dangerous undertaking as they’re probably booby trapped.
Well they are certainly his stated aims.

Hard to argue with those aims. Anything that helps rid the Palestinians of Hamas is good but, unfortunately, before they can do this they have to eliminate the threat of a trap. This is why it’s being flattened first. Unfortunately the innocents are the ones that suffer.

Funny isn't it the killing of Israeli citizens by Hamas is considered totally unjustified slaughter. The killing of Palestinians by Israelis is "unfortunate"

Glorianny

Funny isn't it the killing of Israeli citizens by Hamas is considered totally unjustified slaughter. The killing of Palestinians by Israelis is "unfortunate"

You may find it funny but right minded, unbiased people don’t. Nothing about war is funny.

growstuff

LizzieDrip

There’s a very thoughtful, measured article by the excellent military analyst, Sean Bell. It’s on Sky News which won’t let me copy a link, I’m afraid. The headline is below:

Analysis

All sides know there is no military solution, yet in the absence of a political determination to chart a course for peace, the politicians take the easy route, hide behind inflamed rhetoric, and the casualties mount.

By Sean Bell, military analyst

This is the link:

news.sky.com/story/israel-hamas-war-is-a-direct-result-of-a-failure-of-politics-and-diplomacy-and-politicians-are-making-things-worse-12988322

One sentence in particular resonated with me:

"In the absence of true political leadership, the violence continues - taking sides does not help, it simply hardens resolve."

Also, thanks from me for posting the link. It is a knowledgeable and considered article. It is sad that the media so often mirrors what they think their consumers want. So unless people read/see a wide range of news, they just become increasingly polarised in their views.

merlotgran

^If/when Israel do go in on the ground it will be with overwhelming force, they will pound the rubble to dust, the only way to prevent this will be for the Palestinians to remove Hamas, it’s their choice.^

How do you propose they do that?

Israel has the firepower to do just that, they probably can detect the tunnels and blow them up, in the past the Egyptians have flooded the tunnels with seawater to stop terrorists.

It’s going to be slow attrition but Israel has plenty of time

tickingbird

Glorianny

Funny isn't it the killing of Israeli citizens by Hamas is considered totally unjustified slaughter. The killing of Palestinians by Israelis is "unfortunate"

You may find it funny but right minded, unbiased people don’t. Nothing about war is funny.

No war isn't funny but the biased opinions expressed on this thread are.
It does make you realise why wars still exist.
Some dead people are mourned and some are just unfortunate. It's classic war mongering.
These people matter more than those.
Our people matter more than yours.

Eradicating the tunnels might stop Hamas and kill a few thousand Palestinians, but it won't solve anything. The hatred will continue and the killings will become embedded in Palestinian folklore for generations. There are plenty of other groups who will take up the Palestinian cause and feel justified in killing Israelis.

Katie59

merlotgran
If/when Israel do go in on the ground it will be with overwhelming force, they will pound the rubble to dust, the only way to prevent this will be for the Palestinians to remove Hamas, it’s their choice.

How do you propose they do that?
Israel has the firepower to do just that, they probably can detect the tunnels and blow them up, in the past the Egyptians have flooded the tunnels with seawater to stop terrorists.

It’s going to be slow attrition but Israel has plenty of time

So who are you saying should remove Hamas? Your comments are confusing.

So the tunnels.

Undoubtedly this is also where the hostages are being kept, as well as civilians whose houses are almost certainly built above these tunnels, and the reason that Biden and other world leaders are strongly urging restraint.

Once this has been declared a success by Israel - what then?

The cost of rebuilding from 1000 bombs raining down a day will be beyond anything the world can possibly imagine.

Glorianny

No war isn't funny but the biased opinions expressed on this thread are.

That’s rather rich coming from you. You were the one excusing the actions of Hamas butchers. Your intransigence is there for all to see. I don’t find that funny either.

It is a shame for the discussion becoming personal.

Really I think we ought to aim higher than making silly and in some cases very offensive remarks about other posters.

None of us are entirely innocent, but aiming high in our debate really is the only way forward.

tickingbird

Glorianny

No war isn't funny but the biased opinions expressed on this thread are.

That’s rather rich coming from you. You were the one excusing the actions of Hamas butchers. Your intransigence is there for all to see. I don’t find that funny either.

Glorianny wasn't excusing the Hamas butchers' actions, but suggesting that one death is as bad as any other.

Whitewavemark2

So the tunnels.

Undoubtedly this is also where the hostages are being kept, as well as civilians whose houses are almost certainly built above these tunnels, and the reason that Biden and other world leaders are strongly urging restraint.

Once this has been declared a success by Israel - what then?

The cost of rebuilding from 1000 bombs raining down a day will be beyond anything the world can possibly imagine.

The cost will be immense but it’s not on the scale of WW2, after all the destruction, peace, tolerance and forgiveness was restored and has endured.

Growstuff

Glorianny wasn't excusing the Hamas butchers' actions, but suggesting that one death is as bad as any other.

Please don’t jump in when you aren’t aware of the posts I’m referring to,

I have never said that the deaths caused by Hamas were anything less that terrible, just as the deaths of the Palestinians killed by Israel are terrible.
If you believe I have excused the Hammas killings please post the evidence tickingbird although I believe you are confusing recognising the causes with excusing the killing.

I have already, days ago.

50% of the population are children.

Now their suffering is a dreadful tragedy.

Katie59

Whitewavemark2

So the tunnels.

Undoubtedly this is also where the hostages are being kept, as well as civilians whose houses are almost certainly built above these tunnels, and the reason that Biden and other world leaders are strongly urging restraint.

Once this has been declared a success by Israel - what then?

The cost of rebuilding from 1000 bombs raining down a day will be beyond anything the world can possibly imagine.

The cost will be immense but it’s not on the scale of WW2, after all the destruction, peace, tolerance and forgiveness was restored and has endured.

After WW2 every effort was made to restore normal services to the bombed cities and the defeated country. Sadly that won't happen in Gaza.

tickingbird

I have already, days ago.

And the difference between recognising the causes and excusing the killings was explained to you. Hasn't sunk in as it?

tickingbird

Glorianny

No war isn't funny but the biased opinions expressed on this thread are.

That’s rather rich coming from you. You were the one excusing the actions of Hamas butchers. Your intransigence is there for all to see. I don’t find that funny either.

No one has excused what Hamas did. No one. There’s no point commenting on this thread….I’ll leave it to those of you that think that bombing Gaza to smithereens is the solution to all this because your understanding of world politics is far greater than mine….

After WW2 every effort was made to restore normal services to the bombed cities and the defeated country. Sadly that won't happen in Gaza.

Of course it will some refugees will leave the majority will remain and the moderates will have to live alongside their neighbours. After Hamas is defeated moderates on both sides will have to respect each other rights, it happened after WW2, it happened in NI, it has to happen in Israel.