Labour has won both byelections

God help us if Starmer gets in.and let's get rid od Sunak!
Vote REFORM

Whitewavemark2

I note that Lord Agnew has resigned from his post overseeing fraud in Sunak’s government.

He has left because of what he has found as a result of investigating the governments. Covid business payments. He stated that there is gross fraud and Sunak’s failure (refusal) to deal with it.

To do so would highlight Sunak’s total incompetence.

Sorry not to get back on this - friends arrived unexpectedly so I had better things to do😄.

I’m was a post on twitter that I should have read more thoroughly.

What is is, is someone calling for this to be looked into more thoroughly as the poster is arguing that such a bad case of incompetence and gross negligence under Sunak’s watch should be investigated.

yellowfox

God help us if Starmer gets in.and let's get rid od Sunak!
Vote REFORM

I was surprised they didnt do a bit better than they did.
Not that I have read their policies.

Whitewavemark2

Whitewavemark2

I note that Lord Agnew has resigned from his post overseeing fraud in Sunak’s government.

He has left because of what he has found as a result of investigating the governments. Covid business payments. He stated that there is gross fraud and Sunak’s failure (refusal) to deal with it.

To do so would highlight Sunak’s total incompetence.

Sorry not to get back on this - friends arrived unexpectedly so I had better things to do😄.

I’m was a post on twitter that I should have read more thoroughly.

What is is, is someone calling for this to be looked into more thoroughly as the poster is arguing that such a bad case of incompetence and gross negligence under Sunak’s watch should be investigated.

Aahhh. Thanks for the explanation😄

I doubt it will be taken any further by this government, but Labour have promised an investigation of covid fraud and corruption if it gets into government. There must be plenty to go on...

fancythat

yellowfox

God help us if Starmer gets in.and let's get rid od Sunak!
Vote REFORM

I was surprised they didnt do a bit better than they did.
Not that I have read their policies.

Perhaps they didn't do better because few people actually like them?

What they'll do at the next GE is split the tory vote. Bring it on...

We need Reform and I believe they are gaining ground.

Is that Laurence Fox’s party?

Doodledog

Is that Laurence Fox’s party?

His party is the reclaim party 🙈

Doodledog

Is that Laurence Fox’s party?

It's the rebranded UKIP/Brexit party...

I tried to find out more but can't connect to the party's website.

DrWatson

For CoolCoco and the many others babbling on here about those results (and here I must specify my total cynicism re politicos of all parties, seen many decades of evidence re incompetence and corruption) - sure, Tories are keen to keep on shooting themselves in both feet.

Folk on here should be old enough to know that Labour gets a turn now and again, does much change? MacMillan and Sir Alec Douglas Not-a-Public-Speaker turned voters to Wilson and later Callaghan, (with a disastrous dash of Ted Teef in the middle) and by 1979 a couple of million union members were so hacked off they brought in the wretched Thatcher!

She eventually got knifed by her own party, and a few years later Major - having given us her disastrous plan for train privatisation - duly got booted out (similar scenario to now) and we got the lovely, smiley Tony Bliar, all things to all men (his chief backer Mandelson - now Lord - got suspended so often by his own party for corruption we all lost count).

Thatcher's successor Major, along with henchman Heseltine, tried to bankrupt the country (look up ERM fiasco, or 'Black Wednesday') and they're now a Sir and Lord respectively!

That got us to Bliar, didn't he look great when he swept in (as Starmer may well do)? That got us to a couple of pointless wars, (still feeling the terrorism effects now) and his successor 'prudent' Gordon Brown trying to sell off our Gold reserves at bargain prices, as Labour's policies took the economy down the toilet (I recall the Grauniad groaning with the weight of all the local authority job ads, for left-handed Albanian lesbian social services help and the like!).

Labour could have got in before, but for their membership trying to present the unelectable Comrade Corbyn as a possible leader - and he could lead, perhaps a c'tee checking Hackney bus times with one-time Shadow Home Sec Diane Abbott would be about right?).

Starmer is no great shakes (a disaster at the CPS - ask Lawyers and Police from that period) and he was trying to sell, what was it, 6 possible Brexit policies in the 2019 election?!! But then next to Truss, and BoJo, a cat's hairball doesn't look so bad? There is a saying that we get the politicos we deserve, and on that basis, we must all have been very naughty. I suggested in about the 80s or 90s we should sub-contract our Govt out to somewhere sensible like Holland or Denmark, they could do a good job on about 2 days a week, cheaper and we'd have a much better country.

Overly cynical? Or just a realist?!

Very likely a true summing up of politics down the years😂
A lot of it before my time.
Will you get on the phone to the Netherlands or Denmark or shall I? I think I prefer the Netherlands.
You should apply for a job as a Political analyst😃

Reform = Tice.

MaizieD

Doodledog

Is that Laurence Fox’s party?

It's the rebranded UKIP/Brexit party...

I tried to find out more but can't connect to the party's website.

Ah, I knew it rang a bell. Not much to choose between that and Reclaim, I suppose.

You find the party closest to your views or which by removing views you disagree with, gives yours a chance to flourish Avalon

It's surely a little immature to expect one party, out of two or three, to represent the views of each of us individually?

Agreed, Orio. It's never going to happen, as people (or those who think about things like politics) are never going to be divisible into two or three groups. I don't think that people tend to be exclusively 'left wing' or 'right wing', although they may have tendencies to support one or the other. It is perfectly possible to support a party or general point of view, whilst disagreeing with particular policies. As I said upthread, I disagree with the LP on so-called 'gender', and on purging the more left-wing members, but as I agree with them on the whole, and definitely feel that they would be better for the country than Sunak and his team, I will vote for them and keep my fingers crossed that they won't overstep in the areas I don't like. Not voting should not be an option, IMO, so the only option is to compromise, unless we want to start parties of our own.

I'd be happy with compulsory voting provided there is a box marked none of the above. While it might be preferable to cast your vote for an actual candidate I don't think there should be an absolute obligation to have to. No candidate is ever going to admit some of their votes came from anything other than support for their policies.
On googling I discovered 23 countries have mandatory voting, some apply penalties for not doing so.

I would be happy with compulsory voting if it came with PR.

As the Conservative party brought in voter identification which makes it harder for people to vote I can't see that they would ever agree with compulsory voting.

CoolCoco

Lies; Liz Truss; cronyism; partygate; wallpaper; unelected prime ministers; record taxation ; ruined public services; strikes; inflation; bodged Brexit; HS2; any other reasons for not voting conservative?

Misleading the Queen in order to unlawfully prorogue Parliament...

Joseann
So you probably"won't vote" what a dishonour to the women that died that you have the right to vote. Many women in other countries are beaten for trying to vote. Yet you throw yours away so casually.

NannyC1 men are not voting too.

DaisyAnneReturns

I would be happy with compulsory voting if it came with PR.

PR is great until an extreme minority hold the balance of power as happened with Unionists in NI and is happening in Israel with extreme religious parties.

Putting more power into the hands of minorities is not a panacea for all ills

NannyC1

Joseann
So you probably"won't vote" what a dishonour to the women that died that you have the right to vote. Many women in other countries are beaten for trying to vote. Yet you throw yours away so casually.

We should vote. I that means ‘none of the above’ so be it

In what way are we similar to Northern Ireland, Katie?

Of the 100 countries in the world that use PR, only two use the STV. Northern Ireland uses FPTP when, as part of the UK, it votes for seats in Parliamant. It only uses STV for it's internal election.

The majority of countries, 74 of the 100, use the Party List system.

For there own reasons, the Conservatives offered AV (STV by another name). With the only countries using that being Ireland and Malta, you have to ask why, and whether that is the system that would be offered in the future.

DaisyAnneReturns

In what way are we similar to Northern Ireland, Katie?

Of the 100 countries in the world that use PR, only two use the STV. Northern Ireland uses FPTP when, as part of the UK, it votes for seats in Parliamant. It only uses STV for it's internal election.

The majority of countries, 74 of the 100, use the Party List system.

For there own reasons, the Conservatives offered AV (STV by another name). With the only countries using that being Ireland and Malta, you have to ask why, and whether that is the system that would be offered in the future.

NI was an example of how a small party can prevent a government from making the decisions that it needs to, Theresa May was hamstrung by the Unionists.

Katie59

DaisyAnneReturns

In what way are we similar to Northern Ireland, Katie?

Of the 100 countries in the world that use PR, only two use the STV. Northern Ireland uses FPTP when, as part of the UK, it votes for seats in Parliamant. It only uses STV for it's internal election.

The majority of countries, 74 of the 100, use the Party List system.

For there own reasons, the Conservatives offered AV (STV by another name). With the only countries using that being Ireland and Malta, you have to ask why, and whether that is the system that would be offered in the future.

NI was an example of how a small party can prevent a government from making the decisions that it needs to, Theresa May was hamstrung by the Unionists.

That can equally apply if the party of government is divided. Tory PMs over the past few years have been hamstrung by the ERG. It hasn't made for good decision making.