Labour has won both byelections

maddyone

^I am very disillusioned with politics^

You and me both Avalon.

You can count me in on that as well.

Oreo

Kandinsky

I’d have loved a Labour government with Corbyn as PM ( a real socialist & what the Labour Party was - & should be )
But now they’re just ????? well, who knows?
But as long as they’re not the conservatives that’s all that matters to some.

But we got brexit & that was the main thing ( to many Labour supporters too ) now it’s just back to
‘ping pong’ - few years Tory, few years Labour.

Is your first sentence a joke?
In any case there’s nothing wrong with the ping pong, it’s probably a good thing as political parties can stay too long in power otherwise and things start falling apart, like as now.

Things falling apart is nothing to do with ping-pong. It's simply the effect of Tory policy of not spending on education, health or welfare. It happened just before Blair was elected. Unfortunately the tinkering of centrist Labour governments fails to ensure those things are protected,

Whitewavemark2

George Osborne said that it is Armageddon for the Tories.

On the other hand a Tory mp Andrew Bowden announced that this should be seen as mid-term aberration and that the voter was still broadly in agreement with Tory policies😄😄

I think he is correct, and that what Starmer is offering is broadly Tory policies.

One cannot forget the enormous contributions of Johnson, Truss, Pincher and Dorries' to this result! Well done all.

It’s not good for any political party to be in office for three terms.

Grantanow

One cannot forget the enormous contributions of Johnson, Truss, Pincher and Dorries' to this result! Well done all.

😄😄😄

Starmer has done an incredible job in terms of electability, the size of the task he had on his hands should not be underestimated.

It's excellent news, IMO - for the LP, but also for the country. The UK has nosedived in its place in the world, economically and reputationally, and if that is ever going to be turned around the sooner that starts the better.

Whether Starmer is 'enough' isn't important to the results. Those saying that the LP will win by default are missing the point - you win if you get more votes, and it's looking very much as though he will, whatever the reason. Yes, there will be a lot of Tories who can't bring themselves to vote Labour. I understand that, as I just can't imagine putting a cross next to a Tory without losing sleep over the division and inequality they cause, but I would rather do that than not vote. I really think that voting should be compulsory, but that's another thread.

Not voting Tory is, in this case, tantamount to voting Labour, as the Lib Dems are a spent force and the others have never made much of a mark when it comes to a GE. It doesn't matter whether people don't vote Tory or do vote Labour, as every vote the Tories don't get means that Labour need fewer to beat them. I'm sure that usual Tory voters know that, and if they wanted them to keep power they would have voted. That they didn't speaks volumes.

Doodledog

It's excellent news, IMO - for the LP, but also for the country. The UK has nosedived in its place in the world, economically and reputationally, and if that is ever going to be turned around the sooner that starts the better.

Whether Starmer is 'enough' isn't important to the results. Those saying that the LP will win by default are missing the point - you win if you get more votes, and it's looking very much as though he will, whatever the reason. Yes, there will be a lot of Tories who can't bring themselves to vote Labour. I understand that, as I just can't imagine putting a cross next to a Tory without losing sleep over the division and inequality they cause, but I would rather do that than not vote. I really think that voting should be compulsory, but that's another thread.

Not voting Tory is, in this case, tantamount to voting Labour, as the Lib Dems are a spent force and the others have never made much of a mark when it comes to a GE. It doesn't matter whether people don't vote Tory or do vote Labour, as every vote the Tories don't get means that Labour need fewer to beat them. I'm sure that usual Tory voters know that, and if they wanted them to keep power they would have voted. That they didn't speaks volumes.

Agreed, except that I don’t think the Lib Dem’s are a spent force. I think they will win enough seats in rural areas in the next election to be able to have a real influence.

CoolCoco

Lies; Liz Truss; cronyism; partygate; wallpaper; unelected prime ministers; record taxation ; ruined public services; strikes; inflation; bodged Brexit; HS2; any other reasons for not voting conservative?

Nadine Dorries.
I know she's gone but they had probably had enough because she wasn't there most of the time anyway.

Not voting Tory is, in this case, tantamount to voting Labour
Not really, by not voting I count it as 1/2 a vote for Labour because I can't bring myself to go the whole hog! So Labour candidates need 2 of me to achieve a decent majority.

Callistemon21

CoolCoco

Lies; Liz Truss; cronyism; partygate; wallpaper; unelected prime ministers; record taxation ; ruined public services; strikes; inflation; bodged Brexit; HS2; any other reasons for not voting conservative?

Nadine Dorries.
I know she's gone but they had probably had enough because she wasn't there most of the time anyway.

So why didn't they vote for the tory candidate? After all, the candidates all placed great importance on being 'local'. Are people really so shallow that they don't vote for their party's candidate because their previous MP, of the same party, was really bad?

Don't people judge the current candidates on their own merits?

(Though, in the case of the Mid Beds candidate, who posted a flow chart on SM basically telling poor people to F Off, maybe they had a fair estimate of his merit...)

Oh here we go again 😂😂😂

I was just adding another factor to CoolCoco's list

You can add what you want too. 🙂

MaizieD not forgetting of course that there’s not the slightest difference in government as still holding on to significant majority. So virtue signalling or what?
I guess if you had had a very poor quality meal at a local restaurant chain, it might make you think about trying something else?

Joseann

^Not voting Tory is, in this case, tantamount to voting Labour^
Not really, by not voting I count it as 1/2 a vote for Labour because I can't bring myself to go the whole hog! So Labour candidates need 2 of me to achieve a decent majority.

It's up to you, obviously, but you are still giving votes to Labour. Go right ahead with doing that as far as I'm concerned, but I do wish people would have the courage of their convictions, and vote. We risk losing what democracy we have left if people abdicate that responsibility to others - extremists always vote.

There are approaching 300 Tory MPs defending smaller majorities than the two seats lost yesterday. I wonder how they are feeling this morning?

Go right ahead with doing that as far as I'm concerned, but I do wish people would have the courage of their convictions, and vote.

My convictions have been rendered meaningless, and my beliefs squashed. However, the alternative offers me and mine nothing in replacement. I'll just have to be one of those who opts out on this occasion, as there's nowhere on my ballot paper to explain.

I think the boundary changes will also make a difference.
The majority of new seats are in the South East of England mostly Tory land.
My area being one, our area's new proposed MP is a very controversial Cabinet minister but on paper she should walk it?.. we will see.

Callistemon21

Oh here we go again 😂😂😂

I was just adding another factor to CoolCoco's list

You can add what you want too. 🙂

Not attacking you, Callistemon. Just wondering why tories didn't continue to vote tory. Was it because one bad MP had put them off (though she'd been re-elected by them more than once) or was it, as ronib seems to be saying now, the whole tory 'brand'?

It's simply the effect of Tory policy of not spending on education, health or welfare

No it is not.
It is quite far from that.

I do struggle to quantify quite what it is wrong.
Their action or inaction on immigration, net zero, policing and defence can be added to that list too.

I wouldnt count myself as wanting less spent on welfare maybe, but other previous tory voters may be in that category.

Also, many want less spent on overseas aid.
On pronoun and the like stuff. etc.

I cant speak for all previous tory voters, but as for myself, I was saying the other day to someone, I could quite happily make many cuts in the current tory budget. On mnay different things.

Not sure where I stand on tax, personally.

Joseann

^Go right ahead with doing that as far as I'm concerned, but I do wish people would have the courage of their convictions, and vote^.

My convictions have been rendered meaningless, and my beliefs squashed. However, the alternative offers me and mine nothing in replacement. I'll just have to be one of those who opts out on this occasion, as there's nowhere on my ballot paper to explain.

You could spoil it, as I did once.
The vote was not in a GE but for a Police and Crime Commissioner so I wrote my thoughts across the paper, that the Police and Crime Commissioner role is a pointless level of bureaucracy.

People shouldn’t crow too soon. 😢Remember Neil Kinnock and Corbyn, both of whom had their bags packed ready to move into No. 10. Never happened.

I used to be a Tory voter but not for many years. I would now prefer a change of government and Labour is the only party that has a chance.
It will take many years to rectify the mess the Tories have made of our country so I don't think we will see huge changes for a long time.

ronib

There was no big increase in the Labour vote and Conservatives stayed away in droves - forgot to mention.

Of course they did. They didn't want to vote for the Tories but couldn't quite bring themselves to vote for Labour. As things get worse perhaps some of them will change their minds and actually vote.

Bedford will go back to Tory at the GE because voters will turn out for that. Tamworth was always marginal in the past, will likely stay Labour. What is significant is that the seats were won despite a large LD vote, it’s clear that a lot of former Tories voted LD in protest.