Labour has won both byelections

Joseann

^Go right ahead with doing that as far as I'm concerned, but I do wish people would have the courage of their convictions, and vote^.

My convictions have been rendered meaningless, and my beliefs squashed. However, the alternative offers me and mine nothing in replacement. I'll just have to be one of those who opts out on this occasion, as there's nowhere on my ballot paper to explain.

There's another option- scribble on the ballot paper. They get counted and the numbers are reported.

25Avalon

Difficult to tell really. Voters are saying we don’t like what’s being going on. It could just be a warning shot across the bows, or something more. The Labour Party is divided on Israel/Palestine and the Conservatives are disintegrating. Sunak has probably left it too late to act like a real Tory leader. People do like a change but I don’t think it will be much different. I am very disillusioned with politics.

I don't think it's that difficult as long as you listen to facts, not opinion, Avalon.

There was a report this morning that very few people mentioned Brexiton the doorstep. If the pro-Brexit and therefore anti-Labour band have finally moved on then this, for instance, could make abig difference.

ronib

Mamie you are forgetting that the two former Conservative MPs in both seats were very undeserving of their office. Not at all unexpected in the circumstances.

Just trying to think of a conservative MP who is deserving of their office …

DamaskRose

ronib

Mamie you are forgetting that the two former Conservative MPs in both seats were very undeserving of their office. Not at all unexpected in the circumstances.

Just trying to think of a conservative MP who is deserving of their office …

There are numerous good Conservative MP’s , they just get in with their job, working for their constituents they are just not making the headlines.

And the behaviour of the Tamworth Conservative candidate was appalling. I hope his constituency chairman gave him a good *****ing for such bad manners and churlish behaviour.
From the DT
The Tory candidate in Tamworth bolted out of the door immediately after losing the by-election
Andrew Cooper rushed off the stage and made his way to the nearest fire exit seconds after it was announced Labour had won the seat.
Mr Cooper, who turned up late to the count, was reportedly in the building for less than five minutes.

DaisyAnneReturns

25Avalon

Difficult to tell really. Voters are saying we don’t like what’s being going on. It could just be a warning shot across the bows, or something more. The Labour Party is divided on Israel/Palestine and the Conservatives are disintegrating. Sunak has probably left it too late to act like a real Tory leader. People do like a change but I don’t think it will be much different. I am very disillusioned with politics.

I don't think it's that difficult as long as you listen to facts, not opinion, Avalon.

There was a report this morning that very few people mentioned Brexiton the doorstep. If the pro-Brexit and therefore anti-Labour band have finally moved on then this, for instance, could make abig difference.

Not an opinion DAR but an empirical observation. There are no facts on this.

I don't think you can say that the Lib Dems are a spent force, Doodledog. In Mid-Beds, they persuaded 1000s of previous Tories to vote LD, which actually enabled Labour to get ahead of the Tories.
And you can't discount the 3 by-elections they have won this year. They will get more seats off the Tories in the south, come the GE

I have heard and read (in the media) that the LibDems have 80 Tory seats that they think they could win. I am an LP supporter but I wish they could come to some sort of arrangement with the LibDems. My strongest hope is that the Tories lose the next election and, with a bit of luck, be annihilated because they have done so much damage to the UK.

Labour is benefitting from the ABC effect too.

Anyone But Corbyn.

That wasn't clear at all! 😁

I mean that the Labour Party has now recovered from the ABC effect which deterred so many from voting for them at the last GE.

Reform UK are pleased with their results. Will this be the party to offer an alternative to disillusioned right wing Tory voters in a GE? Time will tell.

Dinahmo

I have heard and read (in the media) that the LibDems have 80 Tory seats that they think they could win. I am an LP supporter but I wish they could come to some sort of arrangement with the LibDems. My strongest hope is that the Tories lose the next election and, with a bit of luck, be annihilated because they have done so much damage to the UK.

I agree that getting the Tories out is important, but would you really trust the Lib Dems? I wouldn't. They split the left with the SDP which led to Thatcherism, betrayed students when they were in coalition, and allowed Austerity to flourish to cling to 'power'. I'm never sure what it is that they stand for now that the centre is firmly occupied by Labour. Being a watered-down version of something at the edges of both of the main parties isn't enough, IMO - they need a vision of their own.

Ilovecheese

Whitewavemark2

George Osborne said that it is Armageddon for the Tories.

On the other hand a Tory mp Andrew Bowden announced that this should be seen as mid-term aberration and that the voter was still broadly in agreement with Tory policies😄😄

I think he is correct, and that what Starmer is offering is broadly Tory policies.

They are not "Tory" policies but they are policies acceptable to all Democrats. I certainly don’t want to move from an attempt to rule by forming a new aristocracy (Oligarch Conservatism) to Socialist Labour.

However, I, and I guess by the voting, many others, would accept Democratic Labour, just as we would accept Democratic Conservatism - if it can ever recover from the recent take over.

I am certainly hoping we can have one full Democratic Labour parliament. They need two but I think the second will depend on whether they can remain democratic or if they move as far into Socialism as the Conservatives have into Oligarchy.

I don’t understand how any one can dismiss the Labour Party as no different, no better than the tories. If we’d had a Labour government the past 13 years, do you really believe we’d have had austerity, wrecking balls taken to our public services and our public servants treated with contempt by the government.

My dog Walker charges more an hour than we pay our junior doctors.

It's endsto be said by people who dont need a labour government. On both the right and the left.

Tends to be that should say

Iam64

I don’t understand how any one can dismiss the Labour Party as no different, no better than the tories. If we’d had a Labour government the past 13 years, do you really believe we’d have had austerity, wrecking balls taken to our public services and our public servants treated with contempt by the government.

My dog Walker charges more an hour than we pay our junior doctors.

I agree. The LP of today is different from the one of the 70s, but that doesn't mean that it is the same as the Tories - far from it.

Parsley3

Reform UK are pleased with their results. Will this be the party to offer an alternative to disillusioned right wing Tory voters in a GE? Time will tell.

Split the Tory vote by doing this and it will hand victory to Labour. They will sail through and be delighted by Reform!

I think Starmer is counting his chickens too soon to be honest. I don’t think it’s his Tony Blair moment aka 1997.

Urmston - honestly Starmer and the rest of us are counting no chickens

Not surprising Labour/conservative won no difference.

Labour is facing large-scale resignations among councillors irate about Sir Keir’s pro-war crimes stance and the ban on attending solidarity marches.
Further departures were reported today in London, Cambridge, Gloucester and Gedling in Nottinghamshire, joining colleagues in Manchester, Stroud and Oxford who quit earlier.
Gloucester councillor Usman Bhaima said: “The party is no longer a safe space for Palestinians, Muslims and those who care about justice.”
In Islington, Asima Shaikh wrote that “a party whose leadership encourages such war crimes is not one my conscience would permit me to remain a member of.”
Gedling’s Russell Whiting wrote that he could no longer support Sir Keir becoming prime minister after his backing for Israel’s blockade of Gaza.
A Labour official, believed to be a member of the party’s executive, has described these councillors as “fleas” to be shaken off.
But a panicked meeting with council leaders held on Monday night failed to stem the tide of resignations.
A national demonstration to demand the end of the war on Gaza, called by the Palestine Solidarity Campaign, Stop the War, CND, the Muslim Association of Britain and other campaign groups, will be held in London this Saturday October 21, meeting at Marble Arch from noon."

Iam64

Urmston - honestly Starmer and the rest of us are counting no chickens

Exactly this. He’s been very clear that there’s still a long way to go and a lot of work to do. I think the Bedfordshire result was a surprise to everybody, that was a huge achievement - but a lot more of those will be needed.

Iam64

I don’t understand how any one can dismiss the Labour Party as no different, no better than the tories. If we’d had a Labour government the past 13 years, do you really believe we’d have had austerity, wrecking balls taken to our public services and our public servants treated with contempt by the government.

My dog Walker charges more an hour than we pay our junior doctors.

I readc that as: my dog, Walker, charges more, etc., and suddenly saw you with a star dog

I’m uneasy.
Vote Labour, vote woke.

GENDER-CRITICAL books are set to be reinstated in the library of a Labour council after a backlash triggered by librarians removing them from display.

This was in Labour run Calderdale. Ridiculous decision.

It was the Tories who led much of the charge with regard to embracing self ID, Penny Mordaunt in particular. They have changed their mind lately but not out of any concern for women.

Good to see my MP working so hard to win the bye-election - he deserves the success.