Nearly 1 million children faced destitution in the UK in 2022..

It’s the pull the ladder up I am
Ok attitude which I find so hard to understand.
Toryism is focused on ‘me’ and mine, not us and ours. which fails to comprehend that there are many reasons why some families struggle and it’s not always because they are just feckless. Life happens and it can be hard.

The bankers etc and their
Obscene bonus systems could
forgo these and perhaps then
More money in The coffers would stop them constantly needing bail outs by the government using public money to pay for the mistakes of the wealthy, and yes, I think most people hete will know the difference between retail and investment banks,

Tax is collected on all earned income excluding the personal allowance. It's the shareholders, customers who should be complaining about bankers' bonuses.
Yes, like most in life, if you can't afford it you can't have it. I woukd have loved more children but economics made it totally unrealistic, at least if DH and I wanted to be independent citizens. Would need bigger house and transport, feeding,clothing, interests, never mind a holiday all take money. Some people seem not to realise this when considering the number children they have.

Germanshepherdsmum

That’s a very sweeping, and incorrect, statement songstress. I don’t know who ‘we’ is supposed to be.

As for bankers’ bonuses Ohnoyoudont, these are mostly given to investment bankers - not to people working in retail banks such as were helped out by the government during the financial crash and in which the government took financial stakes. Do you know the difference between retail and investment banking?

I can honestly say I don't know the difference between retail and investment banking. I also doubt I'd understand it.

Apart from children whose parents become ill or disabled, the biggest group of destitute children are in single parent (usually mother) households.

According to the ONS, most single parents are over 30 and have been in a stable relationship/marriage. They had the children when they presumably thought the relationship would last.

👍

Ohnoyoudont

Germanshepherdsmum

That’s a very sweeping, and incorrect, statement songstress. I don’t know who ‘we’ is supposed to be.

As for bankers’ bonuses Ohnoyoudont, these are mostly given to investment bankers - not to people working in retail banks such as were helped out by the government during the financial crash and in which the government took financial stakes. Do you know the difference between retail and investment banking?

I can honestly say I don't know the difference between retail and investment banking. I also doubt I'd understand it.

Retail banking: Banking for individual customers, like me, possibly you. Your High Street (or online) bank for personal accounts.

Investment banking: Working with corporate clients advising businesses, governments, wealthy individuals dealing with asset management, trading, mergers etc etc.

I have not had the energy needed to write on this thread. 10 pages written and no agreement on poverty. Some of you did not want to accept that all child poverty is not purely down to govt. policy. Those of us who were raised in difficult circumstances ( in my case due to the war and my mother being in very poor health) know too well what is is like being poor. I sometimes think some of you grans on the left lead more comfortable lives than those of us who struggled to get a decent education and use that to get on in life. Some of us got free tickets to Australia and other Commonwealth countries. I was still pursuing education in my 50s. I have worked with many poor people in inner London. I know all about rent arrears and appeared in court with tenants who owed thousands of pounds. Please be comforted in knowing the courts did not offer that many possession orders Instead the tenants were ordered to pay the very low water rates plus a few pounds weekly and after a period of time many debts were written off. Camden Council is no different to other Labour Councils.
Nobody has mentioned birth control. Women these days do not need to have large numbers of children if they are short of Money. In my day we welcomed this measure. I am not a good cook but nutritious cheap meals are not difficult. I think that the modern society seems to demand clothes and shoes that are expensive. I marvel at people walking around with expensive coffees flashing expensive phones and then getting upset when the phone is snatched from their hands
I do hope lefty grans will feel better when Sir Keir is PM. Sadly with COVID,the Ukraine War and the huge rise in energy prices he will find it difficult I just get weary of WW and the Maizies. plus a few others never posting anything cheery and uplifting.

To be fair the title of this thread does not lend itself to uplifting and cheery posts .... !

I'm not lefty
I'm middle of the road.

But I can't bear to think of children going hungry - and they do, in this country in this day and age.
And it is never the fault of the child - that is the point.

Callistemon21

I'm not lefty
I'm middle of the road.

But I can't bear to think of children going hungry - and they do, in this country in this day and age.
And it is never the fault of the child - that is the point.

Totally agree

It is never the child’s fault

Perhaps you should find out the difference between retail and investment banking Ohnoyoudont. If you don’t know the difference and don’t think you would even understand it then perhaps you should steer clear of saying anything about bankers’ bonuses.

4allweknow, you also don’t understand that the big bonuses are given to investment bankers, not retail. You will not be a customer of an investment bank. I’m a shareholder and I’m not complaining - it makes no difference to my dividends but a flourishing financial sector is very good for the economy.

silverlining, you really don’t understand the banking industry, nor I think the reason why some banks had government help during the financial crash (not ‘constantly being bailed out’). Retail and investment banking are separated. There is no way that you or any other taxpayer is contributing to, or suffering as a result of, payment of big bonuses to investment bankers.

Annie’s, I agree with you. You dare not mention people being responsible and having children they can afford, it’s totally irresponsible to have children you can’t. Birth control is readily available, but it’s granny state now and we expect the government to pay for everything, tell us what to eat, to drink etc. Don't know why we still have family allowance. No child should go hungry. People who have always worked and provided for their families can lose jobs and homes due to no fault of their own, no one begrudges them the help they need and I hope they get it until they are back on their feet.. Same with benefits for genuine illness.

Don't know why we still have family allowance.

No child should go hungry That is why.

Family Allowance started in 1946, it is nothing new.

Callistemon21

^Apart from children whose parents become ill or disabled, the biggest group of destitute children are in single parent (usually mother) households.^

According to the ONS, most single parents are over 30 and have been in a stable relationship/marriage. They had the children when they presumably thought the relationship would last.

👍

The elephant in the room Callistemom isn’t the instance you quote, which I agree with.
It’s the single mothers who had a fleeting relationship, then have a few more, producing subsequent children they can’t cope with either emotionally or financially. No contraception in sight, it’s complex.

Spot on. Several children with different fathers, possibly unknown so no hope of maintenance. It is indeed the elephant in the room, well done for mentioning it.

It's still not the fault of the children, though.

Of course not. But the parents must bear responsibility.

I think we can all think of examples of someon who has had several children by different fathers and is struggling or has just given in.

And examples of young women who made a mistake, or more than one but still managed to gain qualifications, get a good job or perhaps start up a business.

But the reasons are many and varied, one of which is whether or not they have been blessed with a good brain and intelligence together with determination to make a better life for them and their children.

As must their parents GSM often it’s repeated behaviour. I’m not sure how to, it’s a deep psychological problem, but tackling that (fat chance with current resource issues) would be a start.

But contraception is so readily available now - why on earth does this happen?

If the norm in your circles is to have children in your teens, and you think that people who have qualifications are snobs or ‘other’ then it will be difficult not to follow suit. If all your friends and sisters have babies it’s natural to want one too.

After that it comes down to luck. If the father of your baby stays with you, if he has a job, and is supportive of you having a job, or getting qualified to get one, if you have supportive parents and are academically inclined then you are in with a chance.

Many aren’t though. I worked in an FE college years ago, in the days when they taught O and A levels to those without them. I came across numerous young women whose husbands/parters had no work and few prospects because of Thatcher’s decimation of industry. The women were trying to change things by getting qualifications that would lead to jobs, but often the men were very resistant- insecurity, jealousy, fear of further emasculation etc. Often other women would make life difficult too - the idea of someone ‘getting above themselves’ is very strong in some communities. It became very difficult for the women to do well if they struggled to get babysitters, were mocked for being ‘at school’ in their 20s etc. Many gave up, and those who didn’t often lost their marriages (think Educating Rita).

Cultural norms have a very strong grip. It’s no different from parents wanting their children to go to university and get ‘professional’ jobs afterwards - that’s a cultural norm too, when everyone around you wants the same for their children.

It’s all very well having people (whether they are teachers, social workers or health visitors) telling ‘them’ how to behave like ‘us’ and despairing when it falls on deaf ears. Darren McGarvey writes (and speaks) very well about this dichotomy- the middle classes trying to show the poor how to be like them but without realising that with both hands tied behind their backs it is much more difficult, and that’s if their clients want to change their culture and way of life in the first place. Many don’t, and the question should be whether that is necessarily or objectively ’wrong’.

Jaxjacky

Callistemon21

Apart from children whose parents become ill or disabled, the biggest group of destitute children are in single parent (usually mother) households.

According to the ONS, most single parents are over 30 and have been in a stable relationship/marriage. They had the children when they presumably thought the relationship would last.

👍

The elephant in the room Callistemom isn’t the instance you quote, which I agree with.
It’s the single mothers who had a fleeting relationship, then have a few more, producing subsequent children they can’t cope with either emotionally or financially. No contraception in sight, it’s complex.

I disagree with you. The parents who have been in a stable relationship are suffering hardship too.

4allweknow

Tax is collected on all earned income excluding the personal allowance. It's the shareholders, customers who should be complaining about bankers' bonuses.
Yes, like most in life, if you can't afford it you can't have it. I woukd have loved more children but economics made it totally unrealistic, at least if DH and I wanted to be independent citizens. Would need bigger house and transport, feeding,clothing, interests, never mind a holiday all take money. Some people seem not to realise this when considering the number children they have.

I disagree. Some people have children after thinking they will be able to afford them, but don't have a crystal ball, so can't see into the future.

Surely it’s a no brainer? Astronomical salaries are obscene when people are starving and those of us who have the luck/intelligence/ education to command decent salaries have a moral duty to spread the abundance. We need more Marcus Rashfords. Otherwise as a species we will just go on in this horrible way. As to the Tories their heartlessness is SO epic that I do wonder what’s really going on. Is it simply as much money as possible for the friends and supporters before they go down? Or do they want to lose the election to get away from the mess they’ve presided over? As for ‘trickle down’ - has that ever been proven to work? And if it does work how long does it take for Heaven’s sake? ‘Don’t worry dear that nice Mr Banker has another 10 billion and in five years mummy and daddy will be able to buy you a bed!’ As to people only having the children they can afford- oh, wouldn’t it be great if we could all control our lives and proceed from birth to death in an orderly fashion! Newsflash- ‘Hope springs eternal’ and poor people hope for a better future (without hope many more souls would go and jump from a cliff which is what some people may want it seems) having kids is a strong biological drive and contraception is not infallible even in this day and age. Look after these poor kids PROPERLY educate them and in 20 years we’ll have an efficient work force. Leave them destitute and resentful and well have a society of criminals

Don’t understand why investment bankers are being scapegoated for society’s failures. Investors fund life saving cancer research and treatments. What life saving research is involved in kicking a ball into a goal? What hypocrisy - football is a very overrated and hugely overpaid sport which keeps the masses happy and in their place.