Sorry Lucky, I just don’t buy any of that. It’s up to the individual. You will never stop people making bad choices or enjoying an idle lifestyle.
Well, that was a farce.........
Instant coffee….advice needed.
Rats like my apple trees. Advice?
..so this is the day the Prime Minister celebrates one year in office by scrapping the cap on bankers' bonuses!
The Joseph Rowntree foundation has found 3.8 m people in the UK are facing destitution. This figure is up 61% in one year and has doubled in the last five years. Destitution is defined as having very low income or having to go without basic supplies.
When is this government going to turn away from their banker friends and face the tragedy their constituents are facing?
Sorry Lucky, I just don’t buy any of that. It’s up to the individual. You will never stop people making bad choices or enjoying an idle lifestyle.
Germanshepherdsmum
Sorry Lucky, I just don’t buy any of that. It’s up to the individual. You will never stop people making bad choices or enjoying an idle lifestyle.
You could stop believing that this is the choice of nearly 3 million individuals. Destitution is not an 'easy life style'.
Correction, it's not an 'idle' life style.
It’s the result of a chosen lifestyle in many cases.
Well said Germanshepherdsmum and Jennifer Eccles. I completely agree. Where has taking personal responsibility gone?
Germanshepherdsmum
It’s the result of a chosen lifestyle in many cases.
Bollocks.
No-one 'chooses' to go hungry or to be unable to keep warm in cold weather.
What is the best way for someone to take personal responsibility if she is in debt because the rent has gone up and the interest on loans is higher for the poor than the rich, has a sick husband who can no longer support her three children or look after them if she went to work but needs the heating on all day or his condition will deteriorate, has no qualifications and lives on a housing estate miles from the town centre with one or two expensive buses away?
montymops
Well said Germanshepherdsmum and Jennifer Eccles. I completely agree. Where has taking personal responsibility gone?
Straight out of the Victorian values of the work house.
Profit not relief must be made from the destitute.
Did you not understand my post Maizie - the result of a chosen lifestyle.
MaizieD
^Germany also understands what to do when industries disappear. When coal mining in the Ruhr was closed down, the country invested billions in bringing new industries to the area.^
And what did the UK government do when shipbuilding, steelworks, mining etc. were devastated in the 1980s?
The N.E got a Garden Festival and Nissan...
Wales got a Garden Festival too
I went with a friend and our children 🙂
There are houses and a shopping centre there now (and an owl sanctuary) but I think it's being developed as a mixed use business centre, whatever that entails.
Doodledog
What is the best way for someone to take personal responsibility if she is in debt because the rent has gone up and the interest on loans is higher for the poor than the rich, has a sick husband who can no longer support her three children or look after them if she went to work but needs the heating on all day or his condition will deteriorate, has no qualifications and lives on a housing estate miles from the town centre with one or two expensive buses away?
Or the father has just disappeared out of their lives.
Or, worse still, leaves then taunts them with his lifestyle whilst claiming to be a low earner so he cannot provide for his children.
Almost half (46%) of children from single parent families live in relative poverty, according to analysis from the charity Gingerbread.
www.turn2us.org.uk/about-us/news-and-media/latest-news/almost-half-of-single-parents-living-in-poverty#:~:text=Almost%20half%20(46%25)%20of,analysis%20from%20the%20charity%20Gingerbread.
Callistemon21
MaizieD
Germany also understands what to do when industries disappear. When coal mining in the Ruhr was closed down, the country invested billions in bringing new industries to the area.
And what did the UK government do when shipbuilding, steelworks, mining etc. were devastated in the 1980s?
The N.E got a Garden Festival and Nissan...Wales got a Garden Festival too
I went with a friend and our children 🙂
There are houses and a shopping centre there now (and an owl sanctuary) but I think it's being developed as a mixed use business centre, whatever that entails.
Some places got "City of Culture" too.
They had to compete against each other of course,
Hull won it one year. Everyone was saying how fabulous it was. Last time I visited just before Covid the place was in a sorry state. I would imagine it's worse now.
We went to Hull when it was UK City of Culture; it was an organised trip so we didn't have as much time there as we'd have liked but I was surprised how much we liked it.
The hotel wasn't very good though.
It must have been in 2017 because John Prescott was campaigning there.
Last time I visited just before Covid the place was in a sorry state.
Well, that's a great pity.
Callistemon21
^Last time I visited just before Covid the place was in a sorry state.^
Well, that's a great pity.
It was typical of a depressed city, shops closing down. The city centre has completely deteriorated. I believe there are some areas, particularly the student section which are doing better, but nothing like the thriving city it once was. Its unemployment rate is almost twice the national average
I must say I didn't visit any shops when we went.
Shops are closing everywhere, so many towns centres are in a sorry state; Swindon is losing its M&S - is this the start of the decline? More jobs lost.
Is it the same in other countries?
Who decides what destitution is ?
How does the Rowntree trust collect those statistics? , Having worked in the community as a paediatric nurse for a long time , destitution has many interpretations
JenniferEccles
Parents have the primary responsibility for their children’s well-being., don’t they? If everyone only had the children their finances allowed, all would be well.The problem arises when they continue to produce more children, but then of course the welfare state is obliged to step in, as it does if people fall on hard times through no fault of their own.
GSM is correct. The bankers bonuses won’t take money from the ‘poor’.
I hate the narrative 'if you can't feed them, don't breed them'
What about all the families who was in work and have lost their job through the business collapsing or those who have become ill or have died And let's not forget that there is a huge amount of people who are the working poor.
What would you like these families to do now? Give up a child or two?
Its like saying
poor people shouldn't have children...
Well I say, a rich country shouldn't have poor people.
I think it's absolutely disgusting that they get huge bonuses. How many times have the government bailed banks out?
The old trickle down theory does NOT work. The reason we don't like the rich is they have no insight into the lives of the poor, they never give back, and are intent on dodging paying tax.
ginnycomelately
Who decides what destitution is ?
How does the Rowntree trust collect those statistics? , Having worked in the community as a paediatric nurse for a long time , destitution has many interpretations
It was explained in the original link.
That’s a very sweeping, and incorrect, statement songstress. I don’t know who ‘we’ is supposed to be.
As for bankers’ bonuses Ohnoyoudont, these are mostly given to investment bankers - not to people working in retail banks such as were helped out by the government during the financial crash and in which the government took financial stakes. Do you know the difference between retail and investment banking?
growstuff
ginnycomelately
Who decides what destitution is ?
How does the Rowntree trust collect those statistics? , Having worked in the community as a paediatric nurse for a long time , destitution has many interpretationsIt was explained in the original link.
People are destitute if
EITHER:
(a) they have lacked two or more of the following six essentials over the past month, because they
cannot afford them:
• shelter (they have slept rough for one or more nights)
• food (they have had fewer than two meals a day for two or more days)
• heating their home (they have been unable to heat their home for five or more days)
• lighting their home (they have been unable to light their home for five or more days)
• clothing and footwear (appropriate for weather)
• basic toiletries (such as soap, shampoo, toothpaste and a toothbrush).
11
To check that the reason for going without these essential items was that they could not afford them,
we: asked respondents if this was the reason; checked that their income was below the standard
relative poverty line (that is, 60% of median income ‘after housing costs’ [AHC] for the relevant
household size); and checked that they had no or negligible savings.
OR:
(b) their income is so extremely low that they are unable to purchase these essentials for themselves.
We set the relevant weekly ‘extremely low income’ thresholds by averaging: the actual spend on these
essentials of the poorest 10% of the population; 80% of the JRF ‘Minimum Income Standard’ costs for
equivalent items; and the amount that the general public thought was required for a relevant-sized
household to avoid destitution. The resulting weekly amounts (AHC) were £95 for a single adult living
alone, £125 for a lone parent with one child, £145 for a couple with no children and £205 for a couple
with two children. We also checked that households had insufficient savings to make up for the income
shortfall.
In essence, this consensus-based definition of destitution seeks to capture people who cannot afford what
they need to meet their most basic physical needs to stay warm, dry, clean and fed.
With regard to the definition’s primary ‘material deprivation’ criterion ((a) in Box 1), the six essential items
specified, the need to have lacked two or more of them and the relevant duration of lack for each specific
item were all endorsed by clear majorities of the general public in the omnibus survey we undertook as part
of the original study (Fitzpatrick et al, 2015).
The secondary (alternative) ‘extremely low income’ criterion ((b) in Box 1), also endorsed by the public in the
omnibus survey, is not intended to provide a new ‘poverty’ line. Rather, it indicates an income level below
which people cannot meet their core material needs for basic physiological functioning from their own
resources. This criterion was introduced because the omnibus survey established that a majority of the public
took the view that people who were only able to meet the most basic living needs with help from charities,
for example, should be considered destitute.
Quantitative research
As in the first three studies in our series on destitution, the development of core national estimates of
destitution involved a number of interconnected steps (for further detail, see the Technical Report: Bramley
and Fitzpatrick, 2023b; also Bramley and Fitzpatrick, 2023a):
• a survey of users of a representative sample of crisis services in 18 UK localities, selected to ensure an
appropriate range of expected incidence of destitution, urban/rural attributes and size/type of migrant
populations (see further below)
• estimating the total number of users of relevant crisis services across all 18 case study areas, and how
many were destitute, over the course of a week, as well as providing a profile of their characteristics and
experiences
• reviewing a wide range of existing statistical datasets in order to generate indicators of groups and
factors associated with high risks of destitution, covering every local authority in Great Britain (GB)2
• comparing our survey-based estimates for the 17 GB3 localities with predicted rates of destitution based
on the secondary indicators, and calibrating the latter indicators for consistency with the average survey
findings
• using information within the survey about repeated use of the particular services sampled, as well as use
of other relevant services, over the previous year, to generate estimates of the total number of unique
destitute service users over the course of 2022
Ohnoyoudont
JenniferEccles
Parents have the primary responsibility for their children’s well-being., don’t they? If everyone only had the children their finances allowed, all would be well.The problem arises when they continue to produce more children, but then of course the welfare state is obliged to step in, as it does if people fall on hard times through no fault of their own.
GSM is correct. The bankers bonuses won’t take money from the ‘poor’.I hate the narrative 'if you can't feed them, don't breed them'
What about all the families who was in work and have lost their job through the business collapsing or those who have become ill or have died And let's not forget that there is a huge amount of people who are the working poor.
What would you like these families to do now? Give up a child or two?
Its like saying
poor people shouldn't have children...
Well I say, a rich country shouldn't have poor people.
I think it's absolutely disgusting that they get huge bonuses. How many times have the government bailed banks out?
I hate it too.
Apart from children whose parents become ill or disabled, the biggest group of destitute children are in single parent (usually mother) households.
According to the ONS, most single parents are over 30 and have been in a stable relationship/marriage. They had the children when they presumably thought the relationship would last.
ginnycomelately
Who decides what destitution is ?
How does the Rowntree trust collect those statistics? , Having worked in the community as a paediatric nurse for a long time , destitution has many interpretations
If you read the whole of this thread you will find that I carefully went to the report in order to find how they defined 'destitution and copied and pasted it on the thread. I also posted a link to the actual report. Which will answer all your questions.
Oh, I see that growstuff has posted the relevant information again.
Thanks, growstuff
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