Nearly 1 million children faced destitution in the UK in 2022..

I think it’s quite naive to think that the added bonuses investment bankers could now receive would be diverted to the poorest in our society, that isn’t how multi-national corporations work.

It is the responsibility of Parents to provide for and safeguard their children, and when there is a problem and this falls by the wayside, whether through illness, unemployment, divorce etc it then should be the responsibility of the Government of the day to step up and provide a safety net for those in need.

We probably all have come across a feckless family but that doesn’t mean that the children should suffer, nor does it mean all families that experience difficulties are feckless

Absolutely right GG.

CG13 it’s naive to think that a tanking economy will help the poorest in our society. It is the task of government to ensure a baseline so that the poorest are helped - it’s not the job of multinational corporations to assign benefits. They just pay the taxes.

The concept of the deserving and undeserving poor makes me squirm. Who are we, relatively well-off, to say why people fall into poverty?

Is it because they are thick maybe? - are they able to change this? - No.

Is it because they were brought up in a chaotic family situation? - are they able to change this? - No.

Is it because they have mental health problems and our health service fails them? - re they able to change this? - No.

Is it because our education system failed them? - are they able to change this? - No.

Is it because they are addicted to drugs or alcohol? - are they able to change this? - No.

A decent society recognises that there will be those with problems that are no fault of their own who will need help from the communal pot. And even if their problems are their own fault - has none of us ever made a mistake?

The sort of problems that land people in poverty are always there and it is the job of governments to try and prevent and alleviate these. Is this what our government has done? .......

- they ended Sure Start which was a scheme that was just coming into its own, helping families with problems learn parenting skills and find social support.
- they have underfunded the education system so that children with special needs do not get the help they need and teachers are dealing with non-learning problems every day to the detriment of all pupils.
- they have presided over the complete collapse of CAMHS nationwide, so that children with problems are left to the mercy of drugs gangs.

Don't give me deserving and undeserving poor - it makes me sick.

And as for "trickle down" - the idea that heaping riches on the already well off so that they will stimulate the economy by their investment in the country - that has been shown to be nonsense. They invest in themselves. And any positive spin-offs their might be to the economy get there too slowly for those visiting food banks.

I spent a large part of my working career as a social worker and know of what I speak. Those who sit behind the bullet-proof screen of their safe and comfortable life really have absolutely no idea how some people are forced to live, and how we as a society have failed them.

there - not their!

ronib

CG13 it’s naive to think that a tanking economy will help the poorest in our society. It is the task of government to ensure a baseline so that the poorest are helped - it’s not the job of multinational corporations to assign benefits. They just pay the taxes.

I tell you what is even more naive is those who think that Sir Starmer will be a knight in shining armour and cure all the ills of the poorest in society of the U.K.

I know no-one who thinks this GrannyGravy13 and I doubt whether you do.

I do of course know of many people who are sickened by the complete absence of integrity of our current politicians and recognise that there needs to be change.

biglouis

*Self-employed status enables a wider range of deductions before tax than ordinary employment*

Self employed people dont have the safety net of a salary coming in at the end of every month or a nice little employer contributed pension adding up in the pot. They have to go out and hustle for business. And they dont get holiday or sickness pay and have to make their own provision for retirement. All that is taken care of for you as an employee.

Most companies have ditched final salary pension schemes so they pay their retirees lower pensions than previously and some companies have failed to honour commitments: remember Robert Maxwell. Of course the self-employed have to undertake tasks which employees don't but against that employees are faced with difficult bosses, harassment, unexpected redundancy and so on.

What riches are you saying this government heaped on the already well off Lucky?

Germanshepherdsmum

There is no assumption whatsoever on my part that everyone in difficult circumstances is at fault, nor have I even implied that that is the case. The thread turned to people who have many children and I gave an example of one such couple. Suddenly that becomes ‘it is all their fault’. In the case of that couple, yes it was.

I know all about men who refuse to pay for their children after deserting them, and the ruses they employ. I was married to one.

I wasn't criticising what you said, just emphasising that, more often than not, we see desperate single mothers on the TV when the subject of child poverty is raised and the question is - where is the father!

In several of the cases I know, living with another woman, hiding his income, whilst his ex-partner struggles to feed and clothe his children from their relationship.

Germanshepherdsmum

What riches are you saying this government heaped on the already well off Lucky?

From personal experience the only gift I have received from the Government was an ever growing tax bill…

Me too.

Germanshepherdsmum

What riches are you saying this government heaped on the already well off Lucky?

Sir Alan Sugar got a bus pass
And presumably a Winter Fuel Payment like the rest of us oldies.

Yes, the WFP - but the cost of means testing would be enormous. I don’t have a bus pass - no buses round here to use it on.

GrannyGravy13

Germanshepherdsmum

What riches are you saying this government heaped on the already well off Lucky?

From personal experience the only gift I have received from the Government was an ever growing tax bill…

Have you never had NHS care, education for your children, roads, police, army, family allowance?

Those are things we paid for through tax and NI, growstuff. They weren’t riches heaped on us.

Germanshepherdsmum

Those are things we paid for through tax and NI, growstuff. They weren’t riches heaped on us.

Nor is the WFP!!

Who has riches heaped on them?! Not the parents of destitute children, that's for sure.

Well, Lucky thinks that the well off have had riches heaped on them, but hasn’t said what these riches consist of. I have a suspicion that she might be thinking of lifting the cap on bankers’ bonuses - but the banks are heaping those riches on the bankers, not the government. The government is happy for them to do so because it’s good for the economy.

I think it would be good if the Dutch system of maternal aftercare was adopted here. New mothers are given 8 days solid support at home by a trained person. How very different to the current approach here. I am sure this reduces stress for new parents and offers a good start for all children. Calm parenting pays off.

ronib

I think it would be good if the Dutch system of maternal aftercare was adopted here. New mothers are given 8 days solid support at home by a trained person. How very different to the current approach here. I am sure this reduces stress for new parents and offers a good start for all children. Calm parenting pays off.

So-called feckless parents need more than 8 days and those who do know what they're doing would possibly ignore the support anyway.

Germanshepherdsmum

Well, Lucky thinks that the well off have had riches heaped on them, but hasn’t said what these riches consist of. I have a suspicion that she might be thinking of lifting the cap on bankers’ bonuses - but the banks are heaping those riches on the bankers, not the government. The government is happy for them to do so because it’s good for the economy.

That doesn't really address the issue.

I think that the point is that we know that the U.K. tax burden is the highest it has been for decades. (Probably since Thatcher)

However - if you compare the overall tax burden in the U.K. with other developed countries it is BELOW AVERAGE, particularly in relation to the social security taxes (in U.K. NI)

growstuff

ronib

I think it would be good if the Dutch system of maternal aftercare was adopted here. New mothers are given 8 days solid support at home by a trained person. How very different to the current approach here. I am sure this reduces stress for new parents and offers a good start for all children. Calm parenting pays off.

So-called feckless parents need more than 8 days and those who do know what they're doing would possibly ignore the support anyway.

Sure Start was set up with this in mind.

Trashed by the Tories.

I’ve worked as a support worker with new mums and families absolutely none of them were feckless, they just faced difficulties and isolation due to a whole host of reasons. None had much outside family support which I think makes a difference