Israel and Palestine (thread 3)

Paddyann54. I suggest you check your facts. It is the AMERICAN special forces that are on the ground in Gaza not ours. The S.A.S are on standby in Cyprus to help with the hostages as and when they are freed, providing transport and other humanitarian aid. You make your allegiances very obvious, which of course is your prerogative, but do try and understand others here may not share your views. So please allow us what we allow you without screaming the odds and also check your facts.

There is nothing in either Shia or Sunni Islam which promotes the violence of terrorists. The main difference is a belief in succession of Mohammed. These terrorist groups are motivated by politics not religion and that's why the solution has to be political.

So is Boko Haram.

Being reported that British SAS are on the ground in GAZA.....why ? NOT IN MY NAME. Are we having a new version of Tony Blairs "weapons of mass destruction with the "Hamas is hiding under every hospital and school? "This propaganda is disgusting and disgraceful .Palestinians are like every other nation and deserve to be treated as such WOMEN and CHILDREN are being killed in your name to free land for Israeli settlers .Be ashamed...be very ashamed.Htred of Palestinians is just the same as hatred of Jews ,we all bleed

Hamas are Sunnis.

Vintagewine

I specifically said SHIA Islam

All the extremist groups are Shia mostly they are fighting Sunni Islam in Yemen, Iraq, Egypt, Lebanon in fact most other countries in the region. Far more deaths have been caused by the Shia/Sunni wars than will ever happen in Gaza
Palestinians are predominantly Sunni who elected Hamas to govern them they are now paying the price.

I grieve every innocent death but they will continue until Hamas either surrenders or is defeated

Barry Gardener involved with peace talks in NI two sides in two rooms. Negotiation
Not more wars is the answer

Israel's Former Public Diplomacy Minister tweeted: “Erase all of Gaza from the face of the earth,” Already erased quite a few.

So how does Barry Gardener suppose that this cease fire will be adhered to on both sides, when one side has avowed the complete destruction of not only their country but every Jewish person on the planet? Did he have a plan that would work? If not??!!

I find your post*Katie 59* extremely confused. How are the terrorist organizations that you mention expanding Islam? The population is already mainly Muslim and the extreme "religious" practices that they demand have nothing to do with Islam but everything to do with oppression, especially the oppression of women. Millions of Muslims live according to the Quran, which is very similar to the Bible or the Tora in terms of religious instruction, and they live happy fulfilled lives. There is a long history of war and oppression which hides behind supposed religious observance fortunately most of us now recognise the difference. I doubt many of us would support the massacre of Muslims during the Crusades or seeing the support for Israel's incursion into Gaza, perhaps some people might.
Just to clarify the last election in Gaza was 2006. Hamas called their party, Change and Reform not Hamas They got 44.45% of the vote, Fatah came next with 41.43%, the remaining votes were split between 3 other parties and independent candidates. Hardly a resounding vote for a terrorist organisation and there has been no elections since then. It has to be said that it suited the Israeli govt to have a divided rule between Gaza and The West Bank.

On Politics Joe YouTube a short interview with Barry Gardener. He does not agree with KS stance on Israel Palestine conflict. Need a ceasefire as more war doesn't solve anything just makes more terrorists
I agree must look for a peaceful solution

I have stated constantly that there will always be individual extremists, but most people are not extremists. Terrorist organisations recruit from societies where there is poverty, discrimination and oppression.

Glorianny

It’s not the individual extremists that are the problem it’s the state sponsored intimidation of populations to expand Islam, it’s nothing to do with religious discrimination.
Hezbollah, Hamas, Houthis, Boca Haram and other groups are supplied with weapons by Iran to expand Shia Islam.

Maybe you think we life of the population in Iran, Afghanistan and other Muslim countries is just perfect, or maybe you don’t care as long as the religious police don’t come knocking at your door.

Oreo

foxie48
I don’t intend to ferret about on threads just to show you a certain post, but I have def read the opinion that all the residents of Gaza need to feel differently about Jews is a good economy jobs and security.Hamas, Hezbollah, Isis, Taliban and others who hate Israel and Jews in many countries have no interest in those things and only want a Muslim Caliphate.
I have attacked the argument many times on here already btw.

The argument that all Muslims want a Caliphate is just as offensive as any statement that says all Jews are anything. It's pure religious discrimination.
I have stated constantly that there will always be individual extremists, but most people are not extremists. Terrorist organisations recruit from societies where there is poverty, discrimination and oppression. You cannot kill an idea. You can only try to ensure that people do not want to die for a cause. There will always be people who still wish to. But one thing is absolutely certain if you kill families then the survivors will be radicalised and will be recruited. With 9000 dead there will be people joining Hamas.

bmacca

It is very obvious that quite a few posters actually want civilians in Gaza to die in the fight to 'destroy Hamas'.

It would appear there is no horror – for Palestians – these ghouls won't sign up to.

If anyone wants rude then this is!

foxie48
I don’t intend to ferret about on threads just to show you a certain post, but I have def read the opinion that all the residents of Gaza need to feel differently about Jews is a good economy jobs and security.Hamas, Hezbollah, Isis, Taliban and others who hate Israel and Jews in many countries have no interest in those things and only want a Muslim Caliphate.
I have attacked the argument many times on here already btw.

There are reports of civilians being shot by Hamas snipers as they try to leave Gaza City, this was also reported in a Guardian article a few days ago. That is the way that Isis forced civilians to act a human shields - stay and fight otherwise we will shoot you.
Israel isn’t going to stop now civilians were told to leave 2 weeks ago, Hamas has stopped that happening so everyone is now regarded as a combatant. It was indeed Palestinians in civilian clothes that attacked Israel on 3/10 so they can expect to be treated a hostile

It is very obvious that quite a few posters actually want civilians in Gaza to die in the fight to 'destroy Hamas'.

It would appear there is no horror – for Palestians – these ghouls won't sign up to.

Oreo

Yes Glorianny you’ve shown posters where all your sympathies lie on this thread, even insisting that hamas are neither ignorant or inhuman in your words.
Your hero Corbyn may well think the same, am thankful he’s toast these days.
There are some naive socialists/pacifists who think all that’s needed is some hand holding and singing and marches and all will be well, hamas members only need a decent job and so on.It’s mind blowingly stupid.

What an incredibly rude post! Glorianny is as entitled to her/his opinion as you are. Others might hold a different opinion to you Oreo but it would improve the discussion if you attacked the argument rather than the person. I am not a supporter of Corbyn but this attack on an individual is completely unnecessary and I don't think the " hand holding and singing and marches and all will be well, hamas members only need a decent job and so on" argument has been put forward by anyone. If they have, post the evidence.

Yes Glorianny you’ve shown posters where all your sympathies lie on this thread, even insisting that hamas are neither ignorant or inhuman in your words.
Your hero Corbyn may well think the same, am thankful he’s toast these days.
There are some naive socialists/pacifists who think all that’s needed is some hand holding and singing and marches and all will be well, hamas members only need a decent job and so on.It’s mind blowingly stupid.

Laura from Normal Island News

MPs furious UN has called out Israel's war crimes
Clearly, they must be Hamas supporters...

British MPs from across the political spectrum are furious with the United Nations for calling out Israel’s war crimes, a move which has undermined nearly a month of carefully considered genocide denial.

To make matters worse, the UN has voted to end the illegal blockade on Cuba because it thinks Cubans are human beings too. Honestly, colonisers aren’t allowed to do anything these days without the woke mob kicking up a fuss. The way they’re talking, you’d think Netanyahu had killed more civilians in three weeks than Putin has in almost two years, which he has.

Personally, I don’t understand why an organisation composed of nations who’ve almost all been colonised by Europeans at one time or another could be upset at the murderous behaviour of colonisers. Obviously, the nations on the right side of this argument are the ones who’ve done colonising themselves.

As we all know, the correct moral position is to call for a humanitarian pause so we can pretend we care when we’re actually eager for the slaughter to continue. It’s important to point out that anyone who wants a permanent humanitarian pause (or ceasefire) is racist.

Everyone knows it’s ridiculous to accuse Israel of the war crimes it’s been carrying out in broad daylight. I mean just because their former Public Diplomacy Minister tweeted: “Erase all of Gaza from the face of the earth,” does not mean Israel has bad intentions.

Clearly, the former minister was talking about people who live in Gaza, and as everyone knows, there are exemptions from war crimes when natives own the real estate you really want to get your hands on. (Those weren’t blast craters, by the way, they were digging the foundations for a new theme park.)

It has long been agreed that pointing out Israel is committing war crimes is a form of anti-Semitism and anyone who does this should be driven out of political life. This consensus has proven so successful it has enabled Israel to take 95% of Palestinian land while portraying itself as the victim. It has even stopped that monster Jeremy Corbyn becoming prime minister, saving me 2% in income tax that he wanted to spend on hungry kids and I wanted to spend on shoes.

It’s feared the consensus that violating international law is grown up politics has been permanently damaged by the UN’s latest virtue signal. Even worse, leftie weirdos like Zack Polanski might be taken seriously as political actors. (If you’re unfamiliar with Zack Polanski, he’s the leader of the Green Party who thinks stopping climate destruction is more important than corporate profit - in other words, a lunatic.)

In a last-ditch attempt to save their reputations, pro-genocide MPs have branded the United Nations “Hamas supporters”. The official list of Hamas supporters now includes:

the United Nations (apart from the coloniser countries)
Rabbis leading prayer vigils for Palestinians at St Pancras station
76% of the British public who support a ceasefire
the BBC for not doing Israeli propaganda convincingly enough
anyone who has ever stood in the same room as Jeremy Corbyn
autistic people who own a cuddly octopus sensory toy
the Green Party and all of its supporters
every Palestinian who lost 20 family members and didn’t start the interview with the words “I condemn Hamas”
I don’t know about you, but I, for one, am glad we live in a country where the first thought of TV presenters interviewing the relatives of dead Palestinians is to lecture them about Hamas and suggest Israel had good reason for blowing up everyone they loved.

This is not at all insensitive and does not show that we live in a fake democracy where journalists act as the mouthpiece for an empire that never really died x

Yes a wise and supremely intelligent man and, contrary to what’s been said by some on these threads, there are many Jews that don’t believe in an Israel as it was created. Many ultra Orthodox Jews reject Zionism.

However, we are where we are and the situation isn’t showing any signs of improvement.

In 1938, Einstein said,

"I should much rather see reasonable agreement with the Arabs on the basis of living together in peace than the creation of a Jewish state. My awareness of the essential nature of Judaism resists the idea of a Jewish state with borders, an army, and a measure of temporal power, no matter how modest. I am afraid of the inner damage Judaism will sustain—especially from the development of a narrow nationalism within our own ranks, against which we have already had to fight strongly, even without a Jewish state. ... If external necessity should after all compel us to assume this burden, let us bear it with tact and patience."

As Israel once again bombs Gaza into the middle ages I am reminded of Einstein's definition of madness

Gaza is hopefully being bombed out of the Middle Ages that Hamas has taken them to so that’s rather ironic as is the mention of Einstein, a Jew that the likes of Hamas would exterminate.

As Israel once again bombs Gaza into the middle ages I am reminded of Einstein's definition of madness
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results

Oreo I sincerely hope that the number of deaths have been exaggerated but according to Jeremy Bowen's comments on the BBC website, in the past international organisations have found them to be accurate. If these numbers are true, the number killed in Gaza in a month will soon exceed the number of Ukrainians killed since the start of the war started by Russia. As I believe we all have lives of equal value regardless of our religion or Nationality, I find this truly dreadful. However, it seems that some people feel differently, believing the lives of innocent Palestinians are of less value. Yes, I do accept that a proportion will belong to Hamas but according to the same report, this is unlikely to exceed 10% of the total.