Starmer’s Dilemma Over Palestinian Situation

So what if he has been sacked?
He's gone, his views are irrelevant.

So - who can sack Hamas?

Thank you Candelle for your post. You have written a factual and illuminating account of the situation. Thank you so much.

Gloryanny - you seem unable to understand that most posters who don’t agree with you, are able to feel compassion and understanding for the people in Israel and in Gaza., or the West Bank.

Iam64

Gloryanny - you seem unable to understand that most posters who don’t agree with you, are able to feel compassion and understanding for the people in Israel and in Gaza., or the West Bank.

Compassion for people who are being bombed and ethnically cleansed. I'm sure that makes them feel much better.

Glorianny

Iam64

Gloryanny - you seem unable to understand that most posters who don’t agree with you, are able to feel compassion and understanding for the people in Israel and in Gaza., or the West Bank.

Compassion for people who are being bombed and ethnically cleansed. I'm sure that makes them feel much better.

You’ve only got one eye open Glorianny.

Glorianny

Iam64

Gloryanny - you seem unable to understand that most posters who don’t agree with you, are able to feel compassion and understanding for the people in Israel and in Gaza., or the West Bank.

Compassion for people who are being bombed and ethnically cleansed. I'm sure that makes them feel much better.

Yes, they can feel compassion, it is difficult not to, Glorianny, whereas a few posters have none whatsoever for the Israelis who lost their lives in such a horrendous way and those who were and still are hostages.

Most posters are not partisan and are horrified by what is happening to all those innocent people caught up in this.

Callistemon21

Glorianny

Iam64

Gloryanny - you seem unable to understand that most posters who don’t agree with you, are able to feel compassion and understanding for the people in Israel and in Gaza., or the West Bank.

Compassion for people who are being bombed and ethnically cleansed. I'm sure that makes them feel much better.

Yes, they can feel compassion, it is difficult not to, Glorianny, whereas a few posters have none whatsoever for the Israelis who lost their lives in such a horrendous way and those who were and still are hostages.

Most posters are not partisan and are horrified by what is happening to all those innocent people caught up in this.

I have compassion for the Israelis killed and captured. I simply don't understand how killing over 9000 Palestinians most of them women and children will in any way make Israel a safer place. The concept that killing the Hamas fighters in Gaza will destroy the organisation is simply flawed. The leaders are not there, the funders are not there, the idea is not there.
There isn't a terrorist organisation in history that has been destroyed by aggressive actions.
I also think that some people fail to realise that there are unacceptable views on both sides and just as Hamas thinks Jews are expendable, factions in Israel think the same about Palestinians.

So you are saying what you are saying in order to make yourself feel better, Glorianny.

Only people with the simplest outlook on life could believe they know better than those with all the background information on this, or that there is a simple solution.

Gloryanny, in en earlier post you mentioned the ‘Conservative’ government not allowing the IRA to be heard by having their words spoken by actors. I assume you’re now confirming the Gerry Adams spoke for the IRA when leader of Sinn Fein. As well as skilled diplomacy engaged in by both sides of the paramilitary, a significant contributor was the growing anger in the communities about the loss of life caused by those paramilitaries. The involvement of UDA and IRA gangsters in knee capping, murder, organised crime was well known. Terrorists know no limits

Defence Minister on Palestinians
"There will be no electricity, no food, no fuel. Everything is closed," he said. "We are fighting human animals and we act accordingly.
Former Prime Minister on Palestinians
Are you seriously keeping on asking me about Palestinian civilians? What's wrong with you? Have you not seen what happened? We're fighting Nazis. We don't target them.
"Now, the world can come and bring them anything they want. If you wanna bring them electricity, I'm not gonna feed electricity or water to my enemies. If anyone else wants, that's fine. We're not responsible for them

Iam64

Gloryanny, in en earlier post you mentioned the ‘Conservative’ government not allowing the IRA to be heard by having their words spoken by actors. I assume you’re now confirming the Gerry Adams spoke for the IRA when leader of Sinn Fein. As well as skilled diplomacy engaged in by both sides of the paramilitary, a significant contributor was the growing anger in the communities about the loss of life caused by those paramilitaries. The involvement of UDA and IRA gangsters in knee capping, murder, organised crime was well known. Terrorists know no limits

Sorry as far as Gerry Adams in concerned he has never admitted membership of the IRA. He was head of Sinn Fein a recognised political group from 1978. and his voice was banned from 1988-98. Apologies if I made a mistake. Perhaps I should have said people they assumed were members of the IRA
He consistently campaigned for peace.
The idea that there was not terrorism on both sides is undoubtedly true.
I wonder though according to Israeli policy perhaps the British should have bombed Belfast in order to root out terrorists? It's a ridiculous concept isn't it?
But let's not forget in Ireland we killed and exiled thousands of people in the 1800s. By 1900s we had virtually wiped out their language and culture and had settled large areas with wealthy British families. And still they rebelled. You can't wipe out ideas by killing people.

Glorianny some agreement with you - you can’t wipe out ideas by killing people. So what do you think should happen next?

Glorianny

Defence Minister on Palestinians
"There will be no electricity, no food, no fuel. Everything is closed," he said. "We are fighting human animals and we act accordingly.
Former Prime Minister on Palestinians
Are you seriously keeping on asking me about Palestinian civilians? What's wrong with you? Have you not seen what happened? We're fighting Nazis. We don't target them.
^"Now, the world can come and bring them anything they want. If you wanna bring them electricity, I'm not gonna feed electricity or water to my enemies. If anyone else wants, that's fine. We're not responsible for them^

And then people came out if their shock (although they didn't get over it), calmed down and some began to talk, realising just how difficult it is. Realising that you need the right peoples to negotiate, not, generally, those with a short fuse and a loud mouth - although they too may be needed. Realising that it will be slow and, probably two steps forward and one step back.

DaisyAnneReturns

Glorianny

Defence Minister on Palestinians
"There will be no electricity, no food, no fuel. Everything is closed," he said. "We are fighting human animals and we act accordingly.
Former Prime Minister on Palestinians
Are you seriously keeping on asking me about Palestinian civilians? What's wrong with you? Have you not seen what happened? We're fighting Nazis. We don't target them.
^"Now, the world can come and bring them anything they want. If you wanna bring them electricity, I'm not gonna feed electricity or water to my enemies. If anyone else wants, that's fine. We're not responsible for them^

And then people came out if their shock (although they didn't get over it), calmed down and some began to talk, realising just how difficult it is. Realising that you need the right peoples to negotiate, not, generally, those with a short fuse and a loud mouth - although they too may be needed. Realising that it will be slow and, probably two steps forward and one step back.

It's the language which is used DAR the concept that Hamas hate Jews is widely accepted (and fully acknowledged by me) the concept that some Israelis hate Palestinians and refer to them as animals seems to be less accepted. The widely held view seems to be that the Palestinians are just the unfortunate side effect, not the intended target. But Gaza is being ethnically cleansed.

Glorianny

Iam64

Gloryanny, in en earlier post you mentioned the ‘Conservative’ government not allowing the IRA to be heard by having their words spoken by actors. I assume you’re now confirming the Gerry Adams spoke for the IRA when leader of Sinn Fein. As well as skilled diplomacy engaged in by both sides of the paramilitary, a significant contributor was the growing anger in the communities about the loss of life caused by those paramilitaries. The involvement of UDA and IRA gangsters in knee capping, murder, organised crime was well known. Terrorists know no limits

Sorry as far as Gerry Adams in concerned he has never admitted membership of the IRA. He was head of Sinn Fein a recognised political group from 1978. and his voice was banned from 1988-98. Apologies if I made a mistake. Perhaps I should have said people they assumed were members of the IRA
He consistently campaigned for peace.
The idea that there was not terrorism on both sides is undoubtedly true.
I wonder though according to Israeli policy perhaps the British should have bombed Belfast in order to root out terrorists? It's a ridiculous concept isn't it?
But let's not forget in Ireland we killed and exiled thousands of people in the 1800s. By 1900s we had virtually wiped out their language and culture and had settled large areas with wealthy British families. And still they rebelled. You can't wipe out ideas by killing people.

Good old peace loving Gerry Adams, another friend of Corbyn.I find your posts eye popping Glorianny.

ronib

Glorianny some agreement with you - you can’t wipe out ideas by killing people. So what do you think should happen next?

The beginning has to be the Israelis stopping bombing. Then if the hostages are still alive they will need to be released. Negotiations will then need to begin to establish two states. The Israelis will have to return some territory to the Palestinians. While these negotiations are happening aid organisations will need to be permitted access to Gaza to deal with the survivors of the bombing. The UN and other interested parties (like the US, Egypt, the UK and perhaps others will need to provide military cover whilst the necessary services and authorities are re-established. It will be a long process.

Glorianny- not forgetting to include Russia, Saudi Arabia, Iran and other vested interests to broker a peace deal?It’s a real mishmash of ideology and religious interests isn’t it? Meanwhile yet again you can be sure the price of oil will rocket.
What is preventing Hamas from returning hostages first to enable a quicker ceasefire? If my people were under siege like this, I wouldn’t hang around……

ronib

Glorianny- not forgetting to include Russia, Saudi Arabia, Iran and other vested interests to broker a peace deal?It’s a real mishmash of ideology and religious interests isn’t it? Meanwhile yet again you can be sure the price of oil will rocket.
What is preventing Hamas from returning hostages first to enable a quicker ceasefire? If my people were under siege like this, I wouldn’t hang around……

What is preventing Hamas from returning hostages first to enable a quicker ceasefire?

Yes, that should be the first step with the proviso that Israel will then cease fire on Gaza. After all that was what started the present conflict, the hostage taking and the massacres.

Ronib
What is preventing Hamas from returning hostages first to enable a quicker ceasefire?

Callistemon21
Yes, that should be the first step with the proviso that Israel will then cease fire on Gaza. After all that was what started the present conflict, the hostage taking and the massacres.

What a sensible idea-which means it’s unlikely to happen.

The whole point of a hostage surely is that you don't just release them? I'm not saying that is right just that it isn't how things happen.

Glorianny Hamas wants to exchange 200 Israeli hostages for thousands of Palestinian terrorists currently held in Israeli jails. The Palestinians need to use the jailed terrorists to prolong the war with Israel.
That’s not the way it works either is it?

Surely the main point is that taking hostages is wrong.

Iam64 notions of right and wrong don’t save lives in war.

Hamas is continuing to shell Israel, a ceasefire or humanitarian pause has to be for both sides.

ronib

Iam64 notions of right and wrong don’t save lives in war.

Really? So there was no right or wrong involved in ww2?
I’ll avoid responding to the way you pick holes in any post I make