Starmer’s Dilemma Over Palestinian Situation

when it’s Israel defending itself from attack, the whole world goes up in flames

Anti semitism is always only just under the surface

these events have certainly, unfortunately brought it out into the open

As I have believed all along.

Save the Children have a petition to Rishi Sunak asking him to ask for a ceasefire and protect all the children . Over 100,000 have signed already.
action.savethechildren.org.uk/page/137213/-/1

The people who are pointing out our concerns about Hamas Ronib. The people who are challenging anti semitism. Those are the people Paddyann is shouting at.

GrannyGravy13
Ghazi Hamad the spokesperson for Hamas has said

We will repeat October 7th attack time and again until Israel is annihilated

Hamas doesn’t appear to be in the mood for negotiations or a ceasefire.

That just about sums up what people are afraid of.

From a selfish point of view, all these huge gatherings of protesters in the UK do nothing for my sense of security.
How do we know there are no Hamas infiltrators here?
What do they expect to achieve when they’re shouting for different things?

Do you think KS is right or not? Would you be able to explain why?

What if you were in the decision making process?
What would you choose as your course of action?
What support would you expect?
What impact do you think it would have?

Save the Children have a petition to Rishi Sunak asking him to ask for a ceasefire and protect all the children

What is the point of ‘asking Rishi Sunak’ for a ceasefire. He is not a key decision-maker in this; neither is Keir Starmer.

There’s nothing anyone in this country can do to change anything. Israel has been attacked and it will defend itself. Hamas has vowed to continue to attack Israel again and again till it is annihilated. All the protest marches will not change anything. Votes in Parliament will not change anything. I think KS is doing the right thing and is showing leadership.

NEW: An Israeli government minister has said that dropping a nuclear bomb on the entirety of Gaza is an option. 2.4 million people live in Gaza.

In 1948 Albert Einstein, Hannah Arendt and others warned about a fascistic strand in Zionism, then on the margins of Israeli politics. That strand, as Andrew Feinstein recounts here, is no longer on the margins. It is embedded in Netanhyahu’s government.
www.redpepper.org.uk/global-politics/palestine-middle-east/einsteins-nightmare-the-fascist-politicians-wielding-power-in-israel/

13 of 31 members of Labour’s shadow cabinet have received donations from a pro-Israel lobby group or individual funder, including Keir Starmer, Angela Rayner, David Lammy and Rachel Reeves. 👉Two-fifths of Starmer’s cabinet funded by pro-Israel lobbyists

www.declassifieduk.org/two-fifths-of-keir-starmers-cabinet-have-been-funded-by-pro-israel-lobbyists/

WAR IS PEACE

FREEDOM IS SLAVERY

IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH”

George Orwell’s 1984 was a work of fiction. Sadly, our political parties think it’s an instruction manual.

Sir Keir Starmer defended his position on the Israel/Hamas conflict, saying a ceasefire in Gaza could risk further violence. Really? Israeli war planes must drop more bombs in civilian areas or else civilians could get hurt? To think he used to brief the media to describe him as “forensic”.

Jamie Driscoll

jamiedriscoll.co.uk/news/war-is-peace/

Labour’s response to the crisis in Gaza is a test of whether it’s fit to govern
John McDonnell
www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/nov/03/labour-gaza-keir-starmer-israel

Just for one moment imagine if this was Russian soldiers brutally assaulting a 12 year old girl on the streets of Kyiv. But it’s not, it’s Israeli occupation thugs and it happened in Jerusalem, so you only get to find out about it on social media.

x.com/Rachael_Swindon/status/1721114987253371014?s=20

Amnesty, Save The Children, Oxfam, Doctors Without Borders, a vast majority of the UN, the Spanish and Irish governments, 76% of the British public want a ceasefire.

Indeed LizzieDrip, Rishi Sunak can change nothing, nor can Keir Starmer.
Why does anyone in this country actually believe we have any influence under these circumstances?

Mollygo it has been widely reported that a Hamas leader nicknamed mastermind Muhammad Qassem Sawalha is currently residing in a council home in a Jewish area of London.

We can only hope and pray that the security services have him under tight surveillance.

Why does anyone in this country actually believe we have any influence under these circumstances

Agreed!

LizzieDrip

^Why does anyone in this country actually believe we have any influence under these circumstances^

Agreed!

Apparently Johnson thinks he can.
According to a thread on GN, he has gone to Israel.

Glorianny

Save the Children have a petition to Rishi Sunak asking him to ask for a ceasefire and protect all the children . Over 100,000 have signed already.
action.savethechildren.org.uk/page/137213/-/1

Save The Children is an international organisation, why would they approach Rishi Sunak? 🤔

Approach the UN.

I am becoming rather confused by some posters ideas of the U.K. Government’s political sway

We have had thread after thread pointing out that since parting from the EU the U.K. is just an insignificant minor player on the political world stage.

Now apparently the fate of 1,000’s of Palestinians is in the hands of our PM…

To be fair Johnson will probably have more influence than Jamie Driscoll, and Johnsons influence will be zero, it's pure self indulgence from all of them.

Callistemon21

Glorianny

Save the Children have a petition to Rishi Sunak asking him to ask for a ceasefire and protect all the children . Over 100,000 have signed already.
action.savethechildren.org.uk/page/137213/-/1

Save The Children is an international organisation, why would they approach Rishi Sunak? 🤔

Approach the UN.

We and the US are the main suppliers of arms to Israel. Perhaps it doesn't bother you that we are enabling Israel to kill Palestinian children. But it does me. And if Rishi Sunak was to ask for a ceasefire and to back that with a proviso that he would not grant export licences to any arms manufacturer supplying Israel we might get something done.
The idea that we are without influence is nonsensical

I’ll just repeat what I said earlier, no one in this country can possibly have any influence at all about what is happening in Israel.
Anymore than we had any influence over what happened in Ukraine.

maddyone

I’ll just repeat what I said earlier, no one in this country can possibly have any influence at all about what is happening in Israel.
Anymore than we had any influence over what happened in Ukraine.

Perhaps the Chief Rabbi.

Another unpleasant comment from you Glorianny.
Totally uncalled for.

maddyone

I’ll just repeat what I said earlier, no one in this country can possibly have any influence at all about what is happening in Israel.
Anymore than we had any influence over what happened in Ukraine.

We supply components for the aircraft that are carrying the bombs. If we threatened to stop doing so Israel would have to think about how it would maintain its aircraft. It would be more likely to discuss peace.

If you want a Ukraine analogy would you have been happy for us to have sold equipment to Russia to enable them to bomb Ukraine?

Glorianny

Callistemon21

Glorianny

Save the Children have a petition to Rishi Sunak asking him to ask for a ceasefire and protect all the children . Over 100,000 have signed already.
action.savethechildren.org.uk/page/137213/-/1

Save The Children is an international organisation, why would they approach Rishi Sunak? 🤔

Approach the UN.

We and the US are the main suppliers of arms to Israel. Perhaps it doesn't bother you that we are enabling Israel to kill Palestinian children. But it does me. And if Rishi Sunak was to ask for a ceasefire and to back that with a proviso that he would not grant export licences to any arms manufacturer supplying Israel we might get something done.
The idea that we are without influence is nonsensical

You seem intent on getting Israel to ceasefire

What about Hamas, and of course Hezbollah?

A ceasefire is a mutual pact to stop any acts of aggression over a set period of time.

I can only assume that you haven’t seen/read any of the statements coming from Hamas?

If the U.K. were to unilaterally stop supplying weaponry to Israel it will not make the slightest difference to the situation. The USA will continue to back Israel and no doubt other suppliers would step in to fill the void left by U.K.

But Hamas maniacs have brutally assaulted 12 year old girl, and many more besides in their own homes, and a lot of us aren't comfortable with that. The promise from them is similar attacks until Israel and the Jews are annihilated from this earth. Both sides have to agree a cease fire, Hamas with its latest declaration is clearly not going to, and even if they did, it would only be to regroup, rearm, and prepare for round 2,so Israel would be very foolish to agree. R.S has no influence whatsoever in the outcome of this tragedy.

Maybe Callistemon but I doubt it.
Didn’t the chief rabbi, the Archbishop of Canterbury, and the chief cleric of Islam all offer a united press conference calling for peace when it all started? I saw them on the news.

maddyone

Maybe Callistemon but I doubt it.
Didn’t the chief rabbi, the Archbishop of Canterbury, and the chief cleric of Islam all offer a united press conference calling for peace when it all started? I saw them on the news.

Yes they did.

Glorianny
I’m sorry but your reasoning is flawed. No we didn’t supply arms to Russia because Russia was the aggressor. We provided arms to the attacked, not the attacker. Russia launched an unprovoked attack on Ukraine.
Hamas launched an unprovoked assault/pogrom/attack on Israel. So we will not be providing arms to Hamas to continue attacking Israel.
I realise you won’t like that response but there it is. It is the situation.

GrannyGravy13

Glorianny

Callistemon21

Glorianny

Save the Children have a petition to Rishi Sunak asking him to ask for a ceasefire and protect all the children . Over 100,000 have signed already.
action.savethechildren.org.uk/page/137213/-/1

Save The Children is an international organisation, why would they approach Rishi Sunak? 🤔

Approach the UN.

We and the US are the main suppliers of arms to Israel. Perhaps it doesn't bother you that we are enabling Israel to kill Palestinian children. But it does me. And if Rishi Sunak was to ask for a ceasefire and to back that with a proviso that he would not grant export licences to any arms manufacturer supplying Israel we might get something done.
The idea that we are without influence is nonsensical

You seem intent on getting Israel to ceasefire

What about Hamas, and of course Hezbollah?

A ceasefire is a mutual pact to stop any acts of aggression over a set period of time.

I can only assume that you haven’t seen/read any of the statements coming from Hamas?

If the U.K. were to unilaterally stop supplying weaponry to Israel it will not make the slightest difference to the situation. The USA will continue to back Israel and no doubt other suppliers would step in to fill the void left by U.K.

The components are hi-tech stuff. It would take time to find another supplier and to ensure compatibility.
In any case isn't there such a thing as a moral stance?
I'm not happy that my country is complicit in the bombing of civilians.
If it is OK could someone tell me how many Palestinian deaths they think are acceptable in order to kill every Hamas member? (Which is impossible for lots of them are not even in Gaza)