Covid Inquiry

I’ve only heard snippets today. I’ll watch ch4 later. Helen MacNamara was calm, clear and impressive, especially in contrast with Cummings. It seems impossible to see Johnson’s Downing Street as anything other than having a macho/ misogynistic culture. It was dominated by white men with privileged backgrounds. Not one cabinet minister had children in state schools. None had received free school meals so Marcus Rashford’s campaign meant nothing.
Awful -m

I have never supported Johnson, though I am a Conservative voter and am likely to remain so.

Younger people should, imo, take priority over the old when it comes to life-saving procedures if there is a choice to be made. Of course people love their older relatives and want them to live forever, but that’s not going to happen. Older people (such as me) have had their lives and unless we are fit enough to be still working, doing voluntary work or we are academics doing vital research and writing books our only use to society is the tax we pay (if any). I don’t support keeping older people alive at all costs if they are not of use to society as a whole. I am one such person, whose only use is to my family and to society via my taxes. I have during my life been a drain on the NHS because due to a particular condition all my medication has been prescribed foc for over 50 years. That’s not right and I have no desire to have my life prolonged unnecessarily.

HousePlantQueen, he was 'doing his best'. Pity his 'best' was utterly inadequate. Hope we don't hear that excuse ever again.
Someone up-thread asked, what IS he good at? He excels in 'failing upward'.

Helen McNamara may have been clear and serious, however she still admitted to having hosted one of the infamous Westminster 'parties' while us ordinary mortals were in lockdown. Teachers and NHS staff didn't have parties, not did supermarket workers. So I don't think she's squeaky clean either

I don’t believe Johnson was ‘doing his best’. I’m not convinced he ever does aim for best, unless it’s on HIGNFY where he can do his best to be entertaining.

Grandmabatty, I don’t believe anyone sees HMacN as ‘squeeky clean’. She’s a lot cleaner than Cummings, Johnson’s Hancock, etc etc

Grandmabatty I can assure you that NHS staff certainly had parties, I have two living next door to me, one is in a senior management position. Their house was party central throughout lockdowns.

Probably not Iam64. It may have been my own misheld belief that she was one of the good ones, until I realised she was part of the party group.

Iam64

I don’t believe Johnson was ‘doing his best’. I’m not convinced he ever does aim for best, unless it’s on HIGNFY where he can do his best to be entertaining.

To quote Woody Allen ‘he was functioning within the parameters of his mediocrity’ so you could argue that he was doing his best. Sadly he was the wrong person in the wrong place at the worst possible time.

Germanshepherdsmum

I have never supported Johnson, though I am a Conservative voter and am likely to remain so.

Younger people should, imo, take priority over the old when it comes to life-saving procedures if there is a choice to be made. Of course people love their older relatives and want them to live forever, but that’s not going to happen. Older people (such as me) have had their lives and unless we are fit enough to be still working, doing voluntary work or we are academics doing vital research and writing books our only use to society is the tax we pay (if any). I don’t support keeping older people alive at all costs if they are not of use to society as a whole. I am one such person, whose only use is to my family and to society via my taxes. I have during my life been a drain on the NHS because due to a particular condition all my medication has been prescribed foc for over 50 years. That’s not right and I have no desire to have my life prolonged unnecessarily.

Speak for yourself. Others certainly do not have your opinion.
I will fight for every day that is left to me.
Would you say the same about a youngster with disability, if so, you are as bad as those in Gov who said the despicable thing about the elderly.

Germanshepherdsmum, that is exactly how I feel.
I too have paid my taxes, but I have been a huge drain on the NHS since my twenties.. I've had more than my fair share.
One of my medications cost £1000 a month and it turned out to be unsuitable for me.

My mother died at 82 and begged me to let her die, because she was tired of living. She had no quality of life, not every elderly person wants to prolong their existence.

Another one in agreement with GSM. Like Marydoll, I was prescribed meds for rheumatoid arthritis that cost £1000 a month. I was 62 still working but long term sick for the first time despite living with RA since my mid 20’s. The meds were fantastic, gave me my life back for a year, when i developed a dreadful reaction one in ten thousand so ‘rare but well documented’ my consultant said.
I’m 74 now, still walking and active because the nhs takes care of me.
I hope to continue to live well. I will continue to be positive and take responsibility for my health. My attitude is not that ‘I will fight for every day that is left to me’ rather that I am grateful to the nhs for its care and support.
To suggest GSM would not want a ‘youngster with a disability ‘ to receive the best care is shocking.
Those of us who have shared the final days of life with loved ones understand about the importance of ‘a good death’. We need a discussion about assisted dying

At times of crisis there are really difficult decisions to be made, I dont mean in the Johnson way which wasnt decision making just chaos. But say Starmer or anyone else who can function is PM in another pandemic there will be decisions that have to be made which balance loss of life through the virus to the damage done by lockdowns. We can pretend that those decisions wont have to be made if we want but not sure how helpful it is.

And that’s key isn’t it? Quality of life. If quality of life is good, it doesn’t matter how old a person is, but when all quality of life is gone, people often want to die.
Thank you Iam64 for realising that I wasn’t referring to all older people, I was speaking about my mother, and using her as an example of what can happen.

Iam64, for the second time I too have had to stop them.
I only lasted three months on this new one.
However, I am grateful for the respite they gave me.

I’ve been more fortunate marydoll. Ten good years on biological treatments give me good quality life. Huge risks of course 🙏🏿

Galaxy I agree that government have to make hard decisions, however Johnson et al lied about it. Matt Hancock and his ring around care homes? The lies and lack of humanity are what bothers me.

No Freya, I would not. I speak for myself and about myself.. If you wish to fight to the very end regardless of the cost to the NHS and at the expense of treatment being given to others that’s your choice. I don’t.

I was talking about if it happened again grandmabatty, Johnsons decisions were led as always by his own deeply damaged character.

Iam64

I’ve been more fortunate marydoll. Ten good years on biological treatments give me good quality life. Huge risks of course 🙏🏿

Iam, I'm having a break to see if the ghastly side effects subside and hopefully try a third one. No more options left.

I have a whole lot of living to do! However, I have no wish to fight to the end, regardless of cost at the expense of others. As I have said, I have had more than my fair share.
At the age of twenty two, a newly wed, my husband was told that I wouldn't live much longer. Forty six years later, thanks to our wonderful NHS, I am still here.

Also, I do not think I would support shielding if there was a next time. It was draconian and I was deprived of medical treatment and family life for nearly two years, I couldn't even have the district nurse in my home, I was so vulnerable.
There has to be a better way, I just don't know what it is. I do hope some good comes out of this enquiry.

Galaxy

At times of crisis there are really difficult decisions to be made, I dont mean in the Johnson way which wasnt decision making just chaos. But say Starmer or anyone else who can function is PM in another pandemic there will be decisions that have to be made which balance loss of life through the virus to the damage done by lockdowns. We can pretend that those decisions wont have to be made if we want but not sure how helpful it is.

Perhaps those decisions should be taken outside of the crises that arise - rather than wait and then respond with a knee-jerk?

Of course there will eventually be another public health crisis, and it would be sensible to start planning now and being pro-active rather than kicking the ball into the long grass - again.

Decisions made under duress are not always the best decisions.

I'm not shocked or horrified - at all - by the enquiry. It's just exactly what I expected. Sad, but true. My observations at the time were spot on.

Instead, I'm surprised by how many are shocked and horrified. Were you all asleep throughout it all?

What I do find depressing are the opinions of self worth, based on some 'usefulness to society' value, set against a cost to the NHS and taxpayers. I've never thought I was a mother Octopus, producing plentiful young, guarding and nurturing the next generation - while slowly starving and fading away, my purpose done.

If you think along those (weird) lines, what about other values? Our experience and wisdom, our examples, opinions and influence - 'worth' a great deal?

I believe humans (all of us) have considerable intrinsic worth, just being, not doing. We are priceless, individual, precious - and can decide how much medical intervention we'd accept for a longer life. No government should ever be allowed to decide for us.

I agree Hetty58

Hetty I never said I was shocked. I was well aware of the ineptitude of the government at that time. I am horrified by the obvious callousness. I think your comments about the value of life are spot on.

I'm not shocked at all, Hetty58.

It very rapidly became apparent that the government didn't have a clue and I already knew that Johnson was totally unfit to be PM.

I had twitter to thank for information, 'gossip' about Johnson, Cummings, etc. which turned out to be true, and useful links to covid research. Also the Guardian reporting in depth what was happening in other countries.

Far more reliable than the emasculated 'news' coming from our main TV channels (I'm not a TV watcher, I prefer the written word)

There's an interesting paper here analysing 12 days of BBC & ITV news bulletins at the beginning of the pandemic. The conclusion is that the 'government line' was being closely followed, with very little mention of what was happening in other countries to counter the virus, even if it was successful. And with very little questioning of UK inaction...

Now that we absolutely know that the government was dysfunctional and irresponsible those news stories look a bit sick...

onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/1468-4446.13010