Following the defacing of a Cenotaph in Rotherham yesterday, would it be advisable for the police to rule that marches in or around the area of the Cenotaph should not be allowed, this weekend only?
A poppy seller was attacked by people in a huge crowd this week, people who have been marching on previous weekends have committed hate crimes by calling for Jews to be eliminated. Should the sanctity of the Cenotaph and the Remembrance Service be at the mercy of the marchers to choose to do the right thing? Why was a Cenotaph thought to be a legitimate target in Rotherham?
Surely those who live in our liberal democracy should understand why this weekend is particularly special to so many people. Those of us who live in this country, a liberal democracy, should understand that compared to so many people in the world, we are very lucky to live in a country that affords us great freedoms, including the right to protest peacefully. Peaceful protest however, does not include the right to call for the deaths of other people, to attack poppy sellers or others, or to deface public buildings.
Why are the London police refusing to use the laws that are already available to ban any marching around this area for for this one weekend?
* [Typo in the title has now been edited by GNHQ]
Whitewavemark2
Those arguing for the Robinson March are ignoring the rule of law.
There are parameters to our freedom of speech which include incitement to violence, which Robinson and cohorts are past masters at doing. If they “March” for whatever reason - then fine, but that is not their intention is it?
So you support the right of those who chant from the river to the sea and Jihad but not Tommy Robinson’s?
Hilarious.
Tommy Robinson and his idiots can have two arrests for terrorism related offences and can still be described as a peace march.
Galaxy
Tommy Robinson and his idiots can have two arrests for terrorism related offences and can still be described as a peace march.
Pro Palestinian marches have had a total of 200 arrests across the U.K., they are a peace march.
I am not a fan of Mr Robinson, but if you support the rights of one group, you cannot deny the other’s due to political bias.
GrannyGravy13
If you support one groups right to march and/or protest then you should support all groups even if their politics and views differ from that of your.
Yes and I do, and so does Sir Mark Rowley. His judgement is that the Palestinian March has shown largely peaceful protest over the past month, and his judgement is that there is no reason to expect anything else today.
However, if you were in Sir Mark Rowley’s position, what would your judgement be over Tommy Robinsons so called desire to “protect” the cenotaph? Would your judgement from previous encounters with this group be satisfied that it will be peaceful, or would you ensure a substantial police presence to ensure that the assembly of these various groups is peaceful at the cenotaph? If they merely stand looking threatening surrounding the cenotaph - no problem - the whole day can pass into history.
Yes I know there have been more arrests but it was specifically the ones related to terrorism offences that I was interested in.
I loathe Robinson as I have previously described but that's the whole point you have to believe in the rights of people you disagree with to protest and speak.
Galaxy
Yes I know there have been more arrests but it was specifically the ones related to terrorism offences that I was interested in.
I loathe Robinson as I have previously described but that's the whole point you have to believe in the rights of people you disagree with to protest and speak.
Totally agree
I agree with Galaxy and GrannyGravy
Whitewavemark2 I am surprised that you support what are racist chants.
I am not a fan of Mr Robinson, but if you support the rights of one group, you cannot deny the other’s due to political bias
They can, & they do - because they only believe in ‘rights’ as long as those rights aren’t given to people they don’t like.
Thank god for Suella Braverman. She’s got them worked out so well. Which is why they hate her.
GrannyGravy13
If you support one groups right to march and/or protest then you should support all groups even if their politics and views differ from that of your.
You don't have support either of them breaking the law though. The thugs of the far-right seem to start out with this intention, encouraged by Braverman and her stirring of "hatred and division".
Actually, you don't "have" to do anything. Freedom of thought is something even this far-right government cannot take away unless its supporters intend them to start down the road of torturing those who disagree. It has to be said, nothing would surprise me as they already subtly use cruel and extreme actions on the areas of society they wish would just disappear.
GrannyGravy13
Whitewavemark2 I am surprised that you support what are racist chants.
Disengenuous, and goady.
I am talking about the right to peaceful assembly and protest.
I might not like what is said, but i stand by their right to say it.
However, if that speech becomes an incitement to violence or hate speech then the police have the rule of law to make arrests as they deem appropriate, and they do.
Robinson - a far right anti-Islamic activist - has the right to do the same, and the police have the duty to police their activities in just the same way.
GrannyGravy13
Whitewavemark2
Those arguing for the Robinson March are ignoring the rule of law.
There are parameters to our freedom of speech which include incitement to violence, which Robinson and cohorts are past masters at doing. If they “March” for whatever reason - then fine, but that is not their intention is it?So you support the right of those who chant from the river to the sea and Jihad but not Tommy Robinson’s?
His name is NOT Tony Robinson.
I know you can't or wont see the difference here. The vast majority of the people on the protect Palestine march will have peace in mind- and very few will be chanting such horrors.
Whereas 100% of any supporters of 'Tony Robinson' will have 100% trouble making at heart, and to provoque a reaction that could turn truly nasty.
I do hope you can see the difference.
What I can’t quite get my head around is this
Are all those disagreeing with me calling for a change in the freedom Act?
If so what freedom?
Because at present no law is being broken, and the police judgement is that neither is it likely to be broken, so therefore it can go ahead.
What law would you change to stop this Palestinian March?
Kandinsky
*I am not a fan of Mr Robinson, but if you support the rights of one group, you cannot deny the other’s due to political bias*
They can, & they do - because they only believe in ‘rights’ as long as those rights aren’t given to people they don’t like.
Thank god for Suella Braverman. She’s got them worked out so well. Which is why they hate her.
It is not about political bias or 'opinions'- it is about intent of the organiser and his supporters, and with a very long standing reputation and convictions, prison even- for violence.
''Stephen Christopher Yaxley-Lennon (born 27 November 1982),[1] better known as Tommy Robinson, is a British far-right, anti-Islam activist. He gained notoriety for his involvement in various far-right movements and was a political advisor to former UKIP leader Gerard Batten. Robinson has a criminal record, having been convicted of multiple counts of violence and fraud, among other crimes.
Robinson has been active in far-right politics for many years. He was a member of the neo-fascist and white nationalist British National Party (BNP) from 2004 to 2005. For a short time in 2012, he was joint vice-chairman of the British Freedom Party (BFP). Robinson led the EDL from 2009 until 8 October 2013. He continued as an activist, and in 2015 became involved with the development of Pegida UK, a now defunct British chapter of the German-based far-right organisation Pegida, (a fascist organisation supporting nazis). From 2017 to 2018, Robinson wrote for and appeared in online videos for Rebel News, a Canadian far-right political website.
Robinson has a long-standing criminal record. His convictions include for violence, stalking, financial and immigration frauds, drug possession and public order offences. He has been committed to prison for contempt of court. He has served at least f*our separate terms of imprisonment*. ''
Suddenly, such faith in police judgment
No need the change the Law. The Police would have very good grounds to stop Yaxley-Lennon from marching due to the above.
At least you can see who and what Yaxley-Lennon is.
Many of those supporting this far-right government pretend they are "not like that". If you voted them in you are, in part, responsible for what they have put this country through.
Anniebach
Suddenly, such faith in police judgment
No faith in British law.
Veterans going to the Cenotaph service have been told not to wear their medals while travelling because of the Pro Palestine extremists, how sad that this is happening in our country. As for Tommy Robinson and his supporters at least they are patriotic and support the veterans and no I'm not a supporter.
I totally disagree with Mr Robinson’s politics and his lifestyle choices.
Under U.K. law he has the same rights as anyone else to march, protest etc as long as he stays within the law.
The chants on the peace marches are racist and calling Jihad is an invitation for violence. The police should arrest those responsible and partaking.
Anniebach
Suddenly, such faith in police judgment
Some people have always had faith in the police while accepting that, being human, a small percentage will not live up to the high standards we expect, AB.
Whitewavemark2
Anniebach
Suddenly, such faith in police judgment
No faith in British law.
Not a lot of faith in this government where the law is concerned.
No faith from me with regards to the met and policing. None.
GrannyGravy13
I totally disagree with Mr Robinson’s politics and his lifestyle choices.
Under U.K. law he has the same rights as anyone else to march, protest etc as long as he stays within the law.
The chants on the peace marches are racist and calling Jihad is an invitation for violence. The police should arrest those responsible and partaking.
Yes.
And thanks to the poster who pointed out that there have been 200 arrested on the free Palestine marches. I had written previously 29. So not entirely peaceful as has been claimed. Intifada has also been called for, pictures of Israeli hostages ripped down, and faces covered. Why cover faces?
As for Tommy Robinson and his band of merry thugs, they will most likely cause trouble somewhere in London.
London is not a place to be this weekend. I feel for the many elderly veterans who are hoping to be there tomorrow. The Cenotaph will be protected, but the tube? Buses? Trains? Streets?
Registering is free, easy, and means you can join the discussion, watch threads and lots more.
Register now »Already registered? Log in with:
Gransnet »Get our top conversations, latest advice, fantastic competitions, and more, straight to your inbox. Sign up to our daily newsletter here.
