Should any marches around or near the Cenotaph this weekend not be allowed?

Anniebach

The size of the banners baring hated of Jews at the march yesterday, the police didn’t see them !

The Israeli flag is the flag of the country and the current Government- not the flag of 'Jews'. Personally, I feel it should not have appeared on banners- but I do believe it was not used against Jews, in an antisemitic way, but to show opposition to Israel and its current Government. We need to remember that the vast majority of Israelis do NOT support Netanyahu, or his policies, or this indiscriminate bombing of civilians in Gaza. But anyone expressing this in Israel is at risk of being arrested, sacked, beaten black and blue or imprisonned as traitor.

Imagine if the St George's Cross or the Union Jack represented, say, the Church of England, as well as England, or the United Kingdom. Difficult to put into words.

Nicenanny3

Patriots or far right thugs?

Why can't we be proud of England's St George's Flag and display it?

Not proud enough to show their faces though.

The size of the banners baring hated of Jews at the march yesterday, the police didn’t see them !

MaizieD

Nicenanny3

Patriots or far right thugs?

Why can't we be proud of England's St George's Flag and display it?

Because, nicenanny, the people who carry it and thrust it in our faces are people many of us have no wish at all to be associated with.

The sad reality- the misuse of the English and British flags for all the wrong reasons.

In the meantime, there is NO freedom of expression in Israel. Vast numbers are totally against, and live in fear of, Netanyahu and his policies and the bombing of Gaza. They have no right to express their opposition, and Israeli Jews are in constant fear of reprisals and/or sacking from their position in teaching, legal professions, journalists, and so many more- for peacefully expressing their opposition and fears- treated as traitors.

Some have been recently brutally attacked and beaten up black and blue, in the street, for expressing their opinion that there should be a ceasefire, many elderly and frail, but young strong soldiers.

Friends from Israel dispair that so few in the 'West' understand that there is huge opposition to Netanyahu by Jews both in Israel and all over the world. Because they believe that the bombing of civilians in Palestine is so wrong- and also because they know that in the end- it will make the situation much much worse for Jews both in Israel and the rest of the world.

ON LauraK this morning, Chakrabati said quite rightly, Hamas is not an organisation that can be bombed and destroyed- it is an organism, that will regrow from bombed ground and destruction even stronger than before. (paraphrasing here, can't remember the exact words).

One question - is the Israeli flag only representative of Israel, or also used in other contexts?

Support the police when they act as I want them to act !

Can I just add that I do not have rose coloured specs as far as the police are concerned, there is much that needs correcting. But, if you want to continue with the traditional sort of policing we have in this country - and I do - than supporting them when they get things right is the way to go.

Carrot and stick!!

Nicenanny3

Patriots or far right thugs?

Why can't we be proud of England's St George's Flag and display it?

Because, nicenanny, the people who carry it and thrust it in our faces are people many of us have no wish at all to be associated with.

Galaxy

They have photos and video evidence WW. Other than turning into Miss Marple I am not sure what you would like me to do.

I don’t want you to do anything, but the police do.

Policing by consent - they rely on information given to them by the public.

So if in your opinion someone was breaking the law and you have evidence to back it up rather than wasting their time with “say so”

Assist them in your information.

It is how it works in this country.

Have you never informed the police or other bodies of law breaking? I certainly have and in one case a very heavy financial penalty resulted in the lose of their business and in another imprisonment.

The police knew the march would be peaceful , they decided to
ignore much

I thought this was quite ironic. Reporting on the press conference given by the police officer in charge of organising the police operation

At a press conference, DAC Laurence Taylor did not use the term "far right" and called the Cenotaph event a "counter protest"

He said:"Counter-protest will be allowed in Whitehall, because the sole purpose and intention is to protect the sanctity of the Cenotaph and remembrance"

DAC Taylor added: "I don't anticipate there'll be any disorder from that group - the disorder will come from a pro-Palestinian group going into that area whilst they are there if they are there.

"If a counter protest is within that Whitehall footprint, I will be allowing that."

Journalists asked DAC Taylor several times why only pro-Palestinian protesters were banned from the area around Cenotaph

He said: "I've got no issue with a group going to Whitehall in order to protect the Cenotaph. They will not cause serious disorder by themselves."

The Met police have such short memories. Remember what happened a few years ago after the Colston statue was tipped into the river at Bristol and Tommy Robinson mobilised his mob to 'protect' Churchill statues in London?

I do. Police in full riot gear trying to control aggressive missile throwing louts.

Basically, history was just highly likely to repeat itself.

I find the term hate speech frequently difficult but in these cases its straightforward. Hitler had the right idea, and kill the Jews is not what I 'consider' to be hate speech, its hate speech waving a hundred red flags.

Yes we can be proud of our English flag but let’s not forget all the nationalities who have given their lives in the World Wars. The armistice is not exclusively English.

They have photos and video evidence WW. Other than turning into Miss Marple I am not sure what you would like me to do.

I think that those criticising the police over the way they “policed” yesterdays events are spectacularly misunderstanding and missing the point.

The police said prior to the peace March , that they expected it to be overwhelmingly peaceful with a very few idiots showing their anti-Semitic credentials.

This judgement was proved spot on.

So, given that fact and the fact that they had limited man power to call on - they concentrated their main operation in areas of high risk, - the Cenotaph and where the far right were likely to cause trouble - which is what they did.

This judgement was again spot on with the far right contained and dealt with which ensured a peaceful cenotaph ceremony and no clashes with the peace March.

Now - I am sure that you are aware that in the U.K. we police by consent, which means that the police are not only reliant on their own intelligence, but also information from the public.

That is why you will find the requests on their web site for information.

So now’s your chance. Don’t just moan on about it all -

Let them know about what you consider hate speech etc, backed up with evidence - otherwise it is no good.

Opal What is it the so called Woke brigade actually believe in? Do you know or is it a bandwagon you have jumped on by using as a slur? Because at 70 I sincerely hope I am Woke, as it means I am Awake, eyes fully open to others peoples suffering in the world.

Well said Madeleine those who have been touched by repressive government are perhaps more aware than others how easily our rights are lost.

Patriots or far right thugs?

Why can't we be proud of England's St George's Flag and display it?

Yes, I guess you’re right Annie. I know extra police were brought in yesterday, and possibly today, but not enough to properly police the two marches apparently. If proper policing cannot be guaranteed surely that is the point when allowing the marches to take place needs to be questioned. I’m unsure why a compromise couldn’t have been found, such as not allowing both marches on the same day. Why not one yesterday, the other today? There would have been more chance of properly policing the marches then. Theses people, from both sides, choose their day and perhaps the right to choose when a march takes place should be looked at.

Maddyone they were not arrested because the police wanted to avoid riots, same reason they declared the march was safe.

Does anyone really believe 2,000 police could have controlled
the number in the march yesterday?

Maddyone 👏🏻👏🏻

Those banners are terrible Nicenanny. I hope those who carried them can be identified and charged. Unfortunately on previous marches people carrying anti semitic placards have covered their faces completely apart from the eyes, which makes it difficult to identify them. Perhaps they should have been arrested on the spot and I wonder why they weren’t.

I don’t see ‘percentages’ as the important thing, seeing and hearing any is an affront and depressing to see open anti-Semitism alive and well on the streets of my upbringing, London.

1) Percentages are a good guide to the prevalence of ideas/attitudes in a given group.

2) I have found anti-semitism inexplicable all my life, given the holocaust, but I deplore any sort of prejudice and anti-islam seems to have taken an equal hold in the UK. at the moment. I'm not favouring one as being more despicable than the other.

whitewavemark2
Did you see some of the banners carried by the ‘peace’ march?
A snake in the colours of the Israeli flag encircling the world, straight out of the Nazi playbook! Other very offensive banners too, also people masked and with hamas headbands.
Others masked and letting off fireworks towards the police.
I don’t see ‘percentages’ as the important thing, seeing and hearing any is an affront and depressing to see open anti-Semitism alive and well on the streets of my upbringing, London.
I feel the same about the far right thugs demonstrating, in fact they probably have similar views to the others about Jews, it’s hard to tell them apart, as Galaxy says upthread.
What’s the answer to all this? To allow protests to go ahead but with very rigorous policing with real consequences for the thugs on either side, in my view.

09:47Anniebach
Nicenanny all you list are now acceptable by the police and the far left

I agree Anniebach and the police in my opinion do treat the left leaning groups differently.