Gransnet forums

News & politics

What is antisemitism?

(208 Posts)
Quokka Mon 13-Nov-23 09:07:22

Is it antisemitic to criticise Israel?

Fleurpepper Tue 14-Nov-23 18:21:44

Callistemon21

Fear?

Same for Islamphobia.

Tragically, what is happening nowin Gaza is 'confirming' those fears, for many. Perhaps difficult for many to realise that huge swathes of the world are turning against Netanyahu's illegal settlements and bombing of innocents - and those who support him, like the UK and USA.

Galaxy Tue 14-Nov-23 18:24:59

I have been impressed somewhat with the approach of Germany and France in terms of challenging antisemitism.

Caleo Tue 14-Nov-23 19:36:54

Is antisemitism a definable thing, or is it an insult?

growstuff Tue 14-Nov-23 21:34:48

According to the 2016 Plenary in Budapest,

“Antisemitism is a certain perception of Jews, which may be expressed as hatred toward Jews. Rhetorical and physical manifestations of antisemitism are directed toward Jewish or non-Jewish individuals and/or their property, toward Jewish community institutions and religious facilities.”

Manifestations might include the targeting of the state of Israel, conceived as a Jewish collectivity. However, criticism of Israel similar to that leveled against any other country cannot be regarded as antisemitic. Antisemitism frequently charges Jews with conspiring to harm humanity, and it is often used to blame Jews for “why things go wrong.” It is expressed in speech, writing, visual forms and action, and employs sinister stereotypes and negative character traits.

Contemporary examples of antisemitism in public life, the media, schools, the workplace, and in the religious sphere could, taking into account the overall context, include, but are not limited to:

Calling for, aiding, or justifying the killing or harming of Jews in the name of a radical ideology or an extremist view of religion.
Making mendacious, dehumanizing, demonizing, or stereotypical allegations about Jews as such or the power of Jews as collective — such as, especially but not exclusively, the myth about a world Jewish conspiracy or of Jews controlling the media, economy, government or other societal institutions.
Accusing Jews as a people of being responsible for real or imagined wrongdoing committed by a single Jewish person or group, or even for acts committed by non-Jews.
Denying the fact, scope, mechanisms (e.g. gas chambers) or intentionality of the genocide of the Jewish people at the hands of National Socialist Germany and its supporters and accomplices during World War II (the Holocaust).
Accusing the Jews as a people, or Israel as a state, of inventing or exaggerating the Holocaust.
Accusing Jewish citizens of being more loyal to Israel, or to the alleged priorities of Jews worldwide, than to the interests of their own nations.
Denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination, e.g., by claiming that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist endeavor.
Applying double standards by requiring of it a behavior not expected or demanded of any other democratic nation.
Using the symbols and images associated with classic antisemitism (e.g., claims of Jews killing Jesus or blood libel) to characterize Israel or Israelis.
Drawing comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis.
Holding Jews collectively responsible for actions of the state of Israel.

growstuff Tue 14-Nov-23 21:36:40

Caleo

Is antisemitism a definable thing, or is it an insult?

It's a word used to describe behaviours in reputable literature.

It's not an insult used in a never-ending propaganda war.

growstuff Tue 14-Nov-23 21:38:29

Galaxy

I have been impressed somewhat with the approach of Germany and France in terms of challenging antisemitism.

Germany has had 75 years to challenge antisemitism. Serious antisemitism in France goes back much further. Don't forget Dreyfus and Zola's famous defence of him.

Iam64 Tue 14-Nov-23 21:52:32

Fleurpepper

Callistemon21

Fear?

Same for Islamphobia.

Tragically, what is happening nowin Gaza is 'confirming' those fears, for many. Perhaps difficult for many to realise that huge swathes of the world are turning against Netanyahu's illegal settlements and bombing of innocents - and those who support him, like the UK and USA.

Good posts growstuff

Fleurpepper, you seem determined to maintain the distorted belief that you’re in a privileged minority - only people like you could possibly realise Netanyahu and his policies are unpopular. To describe the UK as ‘supporting him’ is not entirely accurate. A difficult line is being negotiated with increasingly loud calls for the Geneva Convention international laws to be followed by Israel.

As for gransnet, I’ve seen no support for Netanyahu. The closest to support is from posters who believe Israel has the right to defend itself. I’ve seen no support for the Carpet bombing of civilians . I’ve seen too little criticism of Hamas and it’s murderous barbaric acts

It needs movement on both sides .

Anniebach Wed 15-Nov-23 00:46:35

An interview with Corbyn and Piers Morgan is doing the rounds , Corbyn refused to condemn Hamas as terrorists

growstuff Wed 15-Nov-23 03:04:19

Anniebach

An interview with Corbyn and Piers Morgan is doing the rounds , Corbyn refused to condemn Hamas as terrorists

And?

Corbyn is entitled to his views.

growstuff Wed 15-Nov-23 03:09:14

Iam64 I utterly condemn Hamas' actions, but I don't think anything I can say would make any difference. It wouldn't bring the victims back.

To this day, I still don't understand what Hamas thought it would achieve.

What I do know is that Netanyahu's approach isn't going to solve anything long-term and will result in the deaths of many more innocent people.

Galaxy Wed 15-Nov-23 06:48:31

Corbyn is indeed entitled to his views and others are entitled to respond to them. I cannot express the relief I feel that it is Starmer currently leading the party.

GrannyGravy13 Wed 15-Nov-23 07:06:55

According to Piers Corbyn, the acts of 7/10 were false flag and were actually carried out by Israel…

growstuff Wed 15-Nov-23 07:08:16

GrannyGravy13

According to Piers Corbyn, the acts of 7/10 were false flag and were actually carried out by Israel…

I can't believe anybody even listens to Piers Corbyn!

yggdrasil Wed 15-Nov-23 09:33:47

Anniebach

An interview with Corbyn and Piers Morgan is doing the rounds , Corbyn refused to condemn Hamas as terrorists

I saw that interview. Piers Morgan was bullying and overbearing. Corbyn was trying to say, terrorists or not, they had to be involved in any cease fire.

In any case, how do you define terrorists? It seems to me that any people suppressed or held down by another will be called terrorists. Hamas committed atrocities, though not all they were blamed for. Israel has done similar on the West Bank with the illegal armed settlers.
Mandela was called a terrorist for fighting against the apartheid South African govt. The MauMau in Kenya were ditto by our govt, until recently when we apologised.
There are many other examples.

Anniebach Wed 15-Nov-23 09:50:23

Denial

silverlining48 Wed 15-Nov-23 09:51:12

There are many other examples and believe Sharon later president of Israel was also deemed a terrorist in earlier years.
One mans terrorist is another’s freedom fighter, ergo Nelson Mandela, later to become much lauded throughout the world.

Anniebach Wed 15-Nov-23 09:55:25

So the terrorists who murdered the Israeli Olympic team 1972 were freedom fighters not terrorists , explains why Corbyn laid a wreath for them.

growstuff Wed 15-Nov-23 09:56:39

"Terrorism" is a loaded word.

Even French resistance fighters were called terrorists by the Vichy government in a law of 1943. The resistance fighters themselves even called themselves "Nous les terroristes" on at least one occasion.

growstuff Wed 15-Nov-23 09:58:18

silverlining48

There are many other examples and believe Sharon later president of Israel was also deemed a terrorist in earlier years.
One mans terrorist is another’s freedom fighter, ergo Nelson Mandela, later to become much lauded throughout the world.

There were Jewish "terrorists" in Israel before 1947.

GrannyGravy13 Wed 15-Nov-23 09:58:21

I cannot believe that posters are questioning whether or not Hamas is a proscribed terror organisation!

Unbelievable.

growstuff Wed 15-Nov-23 10:06:48

If people murdered Hitler and his mates at the 1936 Olympics in Munich, would they have been terrorists?

growstuff Wed 15-Nov-23 10:09:20

GrannyGravy13

I cannot believe that posters are questioning whether or not Hamas is a proscribed terror organisation!

Unbelievable.

I'm not questioning it. I know how it's defined. However, terrorism is an emotive word and I'm not the only person who has delved a bit deeper about how it's been used throughout history.

Anniebach Wed 15-Nov-23 10:11:20

GrannyGrany it was to be expected when I spoke of the patron saint of the far left

GrannyGravy13 Wed 15-Nov-23 10:19:31

Anniebach

GrannyGrany it was to be expected when I spoke of the patron saint of the far left

Just waiting for someone to come along and post that ISIS, Hezbollah and The Taliban are just misunderstood

Anniebach Wed 15-Nov-23 10:23:26

Freedom fighters !