So pleased to see hostages being released.

To date the UN have repeatedly refused to condemn Hamas.

As the term ‘Gazan health officials’ really means hamas, no figures given can be believed in any case.

As for fighting on til the rest of the hostages are released, given the carpet bombing going on those hostages will die with the rest of Gaza’s population. Clearly the few hostages left are dispensable because the end game is to clear Gaza of its palistinian inhabitants and create even-more refugees in the surrounding countries.
An Arab free Israel is the goal of this terrible right wing Israeli government. History repeats.

I’m unsure whether to believe the figure of 20,000, or whether almost all victims were woman and children, because the figures come from Hamas. I notice the media very much concentrate on showing the horrific pictures of children who are wounded and Hamas encourage this. Israel didn’t allow the showing of dead or injured children apart from to a small group of journalists. This was because Israel knows it will be criticised whatever it does, and possibly accused of lying, so they ensured at least some people knew the truth about what had happened.

maddyone

I’m unsure whether to believe the figure of 20,000, or whether almost all victims were woman and children, because the figures come from Hamas. I notice the media very much concentrate on showing the horrific pictures of children who are wounded and Hamas encourage this. Israel didn’t allow the showing of dead or injured children apart from to a small group of journalists. This was because Israel knows it will be criticised whatever it does, and possibly accused of lying, so they ensured at least some people knew the truth about what had happened.

Once again attempting to blame Palestinians. The figures of dead in previous conflicts have proved accurate.
aoav.org.uk/2023/are-the-gazan-casualty-figures-being-reported-reliable-two-conflict-experts-compared-the-numbers-to-previous-attacks-and-conclude-they-are-credible/
Hamas officials are the people working in the administration of Gaza they are not terrorists. They are civil servants.
Did you watch the footage of the mortuary ? Where there were body bags without numbers because they had not been identified yet? Only identified bodies are numbered so the total number of deaths may actually increase substantially, once unidentified bodies, bodies buried under buildings, and bodies unable to be moved because of gunfire, are counted.
There are more pictures of children's bodies because far more children have died.
Hamas are not doing the filming. The BBC had people there who have reported. They filmed under difficult circumstances with the fear of Israeli troops shooting if they were spotted. They spoke of roads strewn with body parts.
This trying in any way to justify or minimise this slaughter has to stop. No one attempted to justify the Hamas atrocities, no one should attempt to justify this genocide.

Hamas ‘civil servants’!!! This comment is beyond parody.

This trying in any way to justify or minimise this slaughter has to stop. No one attempted to justify the Hamas atrocities, no one should attempt to justify this genocide.

Unbelievable.

tickingbird

Hamas ‘civil servants’!!! This comment is beyond parody.

That's pure discrimination. Hamas has a political wing. It was this organisation that won control of Gaza. The people who work for the state are civil servants. Their political beliefs are unknown to us. Blaming Hamas for everything, questioning the figures of the Gaza health authority which has a record of accurately counting and recording deaths in other conflicts just shows an inability to acknowledge Palestinian suffering. .
Not only are they apparently responsible for rockets, terrorist attacks and threatening Israel, they also inflate the numbers of dead. What they really are is second and third generation refugees , some of the poorest people in the world who have once again been driven from their homes, indiscriminately bombed, starved and persecuted.

I feel sad that some can't seem to distinguish between victims and perpetrators. The victims can be Israeli and Palestinian and IMO they have equal right to life. Hamas do not have the same right but surely if the actions of the Israeli govt kill large numbers of Palestinian women and children in order to kill one Hamas terrorist, then they also become perpetrators? Israel is committing war crimes and is more intent on killing people than trying to get hostages released. Bombing Gaza into the ground won't eliminate Hamas but for the time being it's keeping Netanyahu and his vile extremists in power. Violence begets violence it needs to stop.

silverlining I feel exactly as you do. I feel that is the end game. The river to the sea refers to them, and they have actually said that.

I am sad also that so many so-called "Christian" posters have forgotten that Christianity is supposed to have rejected the Old Testamant doctrine of "an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth" and its inevitable harvest of eternal blind mutual hatred.

None of these people are Christians. They have different rules. I can see what Christianity has to do with it at all.

Glorianny
That's pure discrimination. Hamas has a political wing.

You of all people accusing me of discrimination is not only beyond parody, it’s almost comedic.

tickingbird

Glorianny
That's pure discrimination. Hamas has a political wing.

You of all people accusing me of discrimination is not only beyond parody, it’s almost comedic.

I'm glad you can find comedy in this tickingbird. Sadly all I can see is a concerted effort to blame a whole race of people for the actions of a few. As this is of course completely unjustifiable, resorting to comedic comments is the only possible repost.
Your position is unsustainable.

As a parallel, would the British have been justified in castigating Sinn Fein as terrorists and killing as many Catholics as possible in order to destroy the IRA? Perhaps driving others from their homes into Eire? And if not why not?

Women and children are suffering the most in this slaughter. They have done nothing to Israel.

We may never find out the true atrocities that are taking place in Gaza because international journalists do not have access.
It is very concerning that from our comfortable situation here we may become immune to the immense loss of life which is daily taking place in Gaza and the occupied West Bank, regardless of which side, or none, we take.

nanna8

None of these people are Christians. They have different rules. I can see what Christianity has to do with it at all.

The posters on this thread include people who have claimed to be Christians, but speak as though they approve of Israeli retaliation that goes far beyond an eye for an eye or a tooth for a tooth - and beyond international rules of engagement.

So many unanswered questions for the policy underpinning this war.

What will the destruction of homes and infrastructure and killing of so many Palestinians achieve?
Is it possible that HAMAS can be destroyed and that lasting peace between Israel and Palestine will be the result?
A more likely outcome is radicalisation and growth of terrorism and refugees, and increasing instability in the Middle East.

Lastly, what is the point of the UN?

The UN relies on nations being true to the concept of acting for a common good, unfortunately that fails completely when one of the big three countries (US, China, Russia) has a vested interest in any ruling. The US supports Israel and is unable to step back from that. As a result Israel have ignored all the UN rulings and will continue to do so.
In countries like Cyprus UN troops maintained the line of peace for a long time although both sides dispute the legal position it hasn't deteriorated into more conflict. But it does require a recognition of UN authority from both sides. It's unlikely to happen in this case.

Elegran please have the courage to name the person who you are attacking instead of making veiled accusations about others, in particular about the religion of others.

nanna8

None of these people are Christians. They have different rules. I can see what Christianity has to do with it at all.

There are about 1000 Christians in Gaza and approximately 40,000 Christians in the West Bank.

Some have been killed in Israeli attacks.

OK, Maddyone I will be as honest as you want me to be. From your earlier posts on the subject, I thought that you were probably Jewish, as your sympathies were entirely with the Israelis, and you seemed to think it acceptable for them to multiply by a very large factor the death and destruction of 7th October. The Old Testament recipe for justice (or retaliation) was an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.

I can understand that someone of Jewish ancestry and culture could react thus (though I suspect that the old way was one eye for an eye, and one tooth for a tooth) Not all do, of course.

But then you replied to Anniebach that you were a Christian. I think you need to refer back to the basics of Christianity.

And I think you should refrain from making personal remarks or attacks on other posters Elegran. My opinions are entirely my own and I’m entitled to hold them. Attacking people in a veiled way, or even a direct way, because you disagree with them is not acceptable. And attacking people about their religion/faith isn’t acceptable either. You wouldn’t dare to do that if I belonged to a different religion.

Incidentally referring to other threads is not allowed in the guidelines of Gransnet. If I’m to read the Bible maybe you should read Gransnet guidelines.

It is not attacking you for your faith, Maddyone, or referring to other threads, to point out that what you say on this thread does not echo the tenets of that faith.

Nor was I making a personal attack or mentioning your username until you insisted that I do so. I repeat my post to show what I said:-
"I am sad also that so many so-called "Christian" posters have forgotten that Christianity is supposed to have rejected the Old Testamant doctrine of "an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth" and its inevitable harvest of eternal blind mutual hatred." You were not the only poster to believe that the Israelis are justified in the scale of their attacks.

An observation made by the United Nations special reporter on health law, the Commissioner General. “We are reaching the point of no return, where blatant disregard for international humanitarian law marks our collective conscience."