So pleased to see hostages being released.

Unfortunately Elegran you have chosen to make veiled verbal attacks on myself, presumably because you do not like what I have written about my feelings on the situation in Israel. You denounce my opinions because you dislike them. I will not be bullied into changing my opinions because of that, nor will I accept your incorrect assertion that my religion has not been questioned by you, something you would never dare to do if I was any other religion than Christian. In addition you have brought into this thread, information about me from another thread, something said to be unacceptable in Gransnet guidelines.
As far as I am concerned, all are allowed their own opinions and should not be castigated, nor should any attempt to shame or humiliate be made because of faith. I find this behaviour unacceptable and judgemental.
I will not engage further with you on this thread, or any other threads.
Please report this if you find it unacceptable.

Elegran it’s so wrong that you criticise the faith of a poster and so wrong you bring my name and a question I asked
Maddyone on another thread.

I am a Christian and I too question why we see a mini bus pulling up at a hospital and only children being taken off the bus and rushed into the hospital by people from the hospital,
not one mother with these children, I also question many children placed on mattresses on a hospital floor together, again not one mother .

I too ask, why only a Christian can be subjected to questioning their faith

What is going on there is nothing to do with Christianity , as I said before. Whatever we as Christians may think and believe is quite irrelevant so I really don't know why it should become part of the discussion. My Jewish friends also have varying views about what is going on. Some for, some against. So what- the fact that they are Jewish doesn't mean they all think the same. None of us are there are we?

I don't have follow a religion but I find it hard to accept that anyone, religious or not, can find the loss of life in Gaza in any way justifiable let alone legal. There are no safe areas in Gaza for people to shelter, little in the way of basic necessities and a commitment from Israel to continue the bombing. Totally against any religion and also against the laws of engagement. This won't bring peace to Israel, they have stepped into the trap set by Hamas, who also don't want peace.

I think it’s a big mistake Elegran to attack posters for being Christian and having opposing views to yourself on this conflict.Would you have attacked posters of other religions too?
Keep to the subject of the Israeli Gazan conflict and don’t be personal.

nanna8

What is going on there is nothing to do with Christianity , as I said before. Whatever we as Christians may think and believe is quite irrelevant so I really don't know why it should become part of the discussion. My Jewish friends also have varying views about what is going on. Some for, some against. So what- the fact that they are Jewish doesn't mean they all think the same. None of us are there are we?

Exactly!

The situation in Israel-Gaza is heart breaking and seems intractable. Netanyahu v Hamas = disaster.

I do find the criticism of posters who identify as Christian difficult to accept. It’s common on gransnet and other media outlets to see Christian’s advised to practice their faith in a way the critic sees as ‘more Christian’.
I don’t see similar criticisms levelled at people of other faiths, or none, at anything like the frequency/. Christian’s as fair game - a bit like the Archbishop of Canterbury

Anniebach

Elegran it’s so wrong that you criticise the faith of a poster and so wrong you bring my name and a question I asked
Maddyone on another thread.

I am a Christian and I too question why we see a mini bus pulling up at a hospital and only children being taken off the bus and rushed into the hospital by people from the hospital,
not one mother with these children, I also question many children placed on mattresses on a hospital floor together, again not one mother .

I too ask, why only a Christian can be subjected to questioning their faith

Maybe their parents have been killed.

Iam64

The situation in Israel-Gaza is heart breaking and seems intractable. Netanyahu v Hamas = disaster.

I do find the criticism of posters who identify as Christian difficult to accept. It’s common on gransnet and other media outlets to see Christian’s advised to practice their faith in a way the critic sees as ‘more Christian’.
I don’t see similar criticisms levelled at people of other faiths, or none, at anything like the frequency/. Christian’s as fair game - a bit like the Archbishop of Canterbury

I've seen plenty of criticisms of Muslims on GN.

However, I agree with you that it's not relevant in this case.

growstuff I agree, in fact plenty of criticism of people of faith generally. They’re supposed to live to higher standards than those with none.
It’s a bit like saying the Israeli’s should have learned from the Holocaust, not to obliterate people .
I’m not defending the bombing of course

I apologise to Maddyone for causing her pain. She does seem to be more truly religious than I assumed. I apologise to Anniebach too for drawing her into the exchange when she didn't want to be there.

Meanwhile, I am sorry I have been so long away. I have been writing a rather long post, which then vanished when I scrolled back up the page to check something. I will attempt to find it or write it again. It was rather impassioned, which isn't my normal style but it came from deep down. We are living in a very dangerous era, on the cusp of global disasters of so many kinds.

Blessed are the peacemakers.

I think it's fair enough to ask anyone who claims to have a faith how they reconcile that faith with the bombing of Gaza. As far as Christians go, one of the phrases used in the modern church is "Peace be with you." and it used to be common practice to turn and give the sign of peace by shaking hands at the end of a service. Quite how any Christian can support the destruction and killing which is happening I don't understand, so I think it is reasonable to ask for an explanation.

The exchange of Peace is with those next to you in the Church service, those who it is easy to be at peace with because you belong to the same congregation, follow the same teachings, have a shared history in a shared land.

Those who worship in a different mosque or synagogue or in none, who follow a different teacher, have a different history in a different land and believe that all you believe is mistaken - they are not as easy to live with in peace. Particularly when your differences go back centuries and have led to violence in the past, but that is when the effort to co-exist peacefully is most needed

I accept your apology Elegran. I said I would not engage with you further, but I am touched by your apology and accept it wholeheartedly and in the spirit in which it is given.
Whilst I abhor what Hamas did on 7/10, I don’t think I’ve written a post which states I support the bombing of innocents. What I have said, repeatedly, is that I don’t think the Israelis will stop until they disarm Hamas. That’s an opinion but not a fact, but that is what I think. I’m not offering support or a lack of support, simply stating that is what I think. I know what my Jewish friends think, but not all Jewish people think the same, as nanna8 points out. Nor in fact, do all Christian people think alike. I am not a member of the established church, I am a member of a non conformist church, having been brought up as a Methodist.

Thank you, Glorianny.

Thank you., Maddyone I went to Sunday-school in a Methodist-style church when I was young. Less ceremonial and more personal responsibility than some denominations.

Regardless of whether we are “religious” or not I would like to think that we all share a common humanity and compassion for our fellow human beings.

growstuff

Anniebach

Elegran it’s so wrong that you criticise the faith of a poster and so wrong you bring my name and a question I asked
Maddyone on another thread.

I am a Christian and I too question why we see a mini bus pulling up at a hospital and only children being taken off the bus and rushed into the hospital by people from the hospital,
not one mother with these children, I also question many children placed on mattresses on a hospital floor together, again not one mother .

I too ask, why only a Christian can be subjected to questioning their faith

Maybe their parents have been killed.

Perhaps the children's parents gave up a place so that another child could be taken to hospital.

Ilovecheese

growstuff

Anniebach

Elegran it’s so wrong that you criticise the faith of a poster and so wrong you bring my name and a question I asked
Maddyone on another thread.

I am a Christian and I too question why we see a mini bus pulling up at a hospital and only children being taken off the bus and rushed into the hospital by people from the hospital,
not one mother with these children, I also question many children placed on mattresses on a hospital floor together, again not one mother .

I too ask, why only a Christian can be subjected to questioning their faith

Maybe their parents have been killed.

Perhaps the children's parents gave up a place so that another child could be taken to hospital.

I would imagine parents are faced with a terrible choice accompany your child to hospital and leave your other children unprotected or stay with the others and hope you can reach the hospital later. Did you see where parents were writing IDs on their children with felt pen so that if they could be identified if found alone after a bombing raid.
Children arriving at hospital alone, lying in hospital alone and no mothers. Well most of the dead are women and children, so perhaps that isn't so surprising.

Glorianny

I think it's fair enough to ask anyone who claims to have a faith how they reconcile that faith with the bombing of Gaza. As far as Christians go, one of the phrases used in the modern church is "Peace be with you." and it used to be common practice to turn and give the sign of peace by shaking hands at the end of a service. Quite how any Christian can support the destruction and killing which is happening I don't understand, so I think it is reasonable to ask for an explanation.

I would class myself as Christian. Every day since all this started I have prayed for the people of Gaza.
All the people in Israel, Palestine, West Bank, Jew, Muslim any faith or no faith. I pray that there is a ceasefire. I pray that the medical and food aid get through. That there is an end to this suffering for the ordinary people on all sides.

Who are the Christians you mention who support this destruction and killing? They’re not in my Church who pray daily as I have said above for all the people on all sides of this terrible situation.

There is a human tragedy unfolding here but some seem to enjoy unpicking the trivia.

Faith isn’t trivia for those with faith

Doodle

Glorianny

I think it's fair enough to ask anyone who claims to have a faith how they reconcile that faith with the bombing of Gaza. As far as Christians go, one of the phrases used in the modern church is "Peace be with you." and it used to be common practice to turn and give the sign of peace by shaking hands at the end of a service. Quite how any Christian can support the destruction and killing which is happening I don't understand, so I think it is reasonable to ask for an explanation.

I would class myself as Christian. Every day since all this started I have prayed for the people of Gaza.
All the people in Israel, Palestine, West Bank, Jew, Muslim any faith or no faith. I pray that there is a ceasefire. I pray that the medical and food aid get through. That there is an end to this suffering for the ordinary people on all sides.

Who are the Christians you mention who support this destruction and killing? They’re not in my Church who pray daily as I have said above for all the people on all sides of this terrible situation.

I know no Christians who support this either, Doodle.
Every sermon, speech, every prayer is a heartfelt plea for a swift resolution and for peace in Palestine, in Ukraine and other areas of conflict.

It is just posters on here who seem to make those claims in order to attack other posters.

Quite how any Christian can support the destruction and killing which is happening I don't understand, so I think it is reasonable to ask for an explanation.

I think the explanation may be that your imagination is at work, Glorianny.

If you question the numbers of dead, in spite of the evidence that accurate figures have always been produced by the Gaza administration, if you allege that Hamas are somehow deliberately showing pictures of dead and injured children, If you choose to denigrate the Palestinian people by calling them Hamas or terrorists then you are by inference supporting the Israeli attitude and therefore the bombing.
It's done through the subtle but very important idea you are supporting that somehow the Palestinian people are untrustworthy. This is always at the basis of any process of genocide. It means that the people are seen as somehow deserving of the destruction.
It's something Israel has depended upon for many years. Alleging that the Arabs living in the area are somehow unproductive, lazy and out of date and the Israeli acquisition of land was best for the country. It has now expanded into labelling Palestinians terrorists. Failing to recognise the tactic and not condemning it is giving the policy your tacit support.

Not to mention the number of people who think that the UK selling arms to Israel is fine. That's supporting the bombing.
UK components make up 15% of the aircraft delivering those bombs. www.declassifieduk.org/uk-arms-israel-as-it-bombards-gaza/
Praying might help. Writing to your MP and urging that arms sales be stopped would help more.