So pleased to see hostages being released.

Farzanah

There is a human tragedy unfolding here but some seem to enjoy unpicking the trivia.

I don't understand who you mean Farzanah Could you explain please?

The way you distort what posters who don’t express themselves to your satisfaction stifles debate gloryanny.

Gloryanny not sure if your last post was a general one or one aimed towards Christians.
Either way, I am not questioning the information. I have read in the news today that Palestinian people captured by the Israelies have been tortured. I abhor this and nothing justifies torture in my mind not matter who’s name it’s done in.
I have never thought of or said that I think the Palestinians are Hamas. I do think Hamas committed an atrocious act that provoked this current conflict. Do I think the population of Gaza deserve what has happened since, no I do not.
As I said, along with many Christians and people of other faiths, I pray every day for a ceasefire and help for the people of Gaza and Ukraine. I’m sorry but I don’t think I fit inti to your idea of Christians. Many of us say Peace be with you and really mean it. Peace for all no matter what colour, race or religion.

Praying may or may not result in what you pray for. We learn this very young, when we don't get the Christmas or birthday presents we dearly desire, and asked for in our prayers as well as in our letters to Santa Claus.

I don't think the leaders of the Israeli or the Palestinian fighters are copied in to the prayers sent to God, and in any case, they probably wouldn't consider them as important as their own requests to God or Allah.

What might hold sway with them could be unambiguous disapproval from places like the US, Russia and China, coupled with the possibility of sanctions against them both if they won't play nicely. Those countries have not put their considerable power behind UN resolutions, preferring to abstain or even vote against them. That waters down the international pressure toward peace.

I was wondering is prayer some sort of Get Out of Gaol free card? I really don't understand. Having prayed about this do you then leave it up to God to do something? And does that mean you can ignore the UK's role in this, the supply of arms and the tacit support of the US? When does personal responsibility come in?

That is really offensive, Glorianny
Thoroughly nasty.

I'd stop before someone reports you.

You’re right Glorianny, you really don’t understand. Like many others who refer to God in the same sentence as the tooth fairy or Santa. You don’t believe and don’t have faith so cannot understand what it means for those of us who do, to pray.
No I don’t just forget about it and go on my merry way.

What do you do please? What do you think is your personal responsibility and how do you act on it?

Doodle

You’re right Glorianny, you really don’t understand. Like many others who refer to God in the same sentence as the tooth fairy or Santa. You don’t believe and don’t have faith so cannot understand what it means for those of us who do, to pray.
No I don’t just forget about it and go on my merry way.

What do you do please? What do you think is your personal responsibility and how do you act on it?

My opinion of the far left is that they are just as bad as the far right and that they meet somewhere at the back of the political circle in their tendency to warmongering and genocide.

That’s a very offensive post gloryanny, as you intended it to be. You’re right, you don’t understand so best not to contribute so aggressively and dismissively. Is this aimed at Christians, or is it faith inclusive?
Your personal responsibility clearly doesn’t extend to treating others with respect.
Well said Callistemon

Callistemon21

That is really offensive, Glorianny
Thoroughly nasty.

I'd stop before someone reports you.

Why who have I called names or attacked. I assume that everyone who prays doesn't have the same experience as everyone else? Or do they?
The only prayer I really know, is the Lord's Prayer and that is a plea to change oneself, not for any outside body to interfere in external events. I can see that is useful. I don't see how other prayer is. But I'm willing to listen.

I find Callistemon21 's post offensive. My socialist views are often regarded on here as "far left" I have no tendency to warmongering or genocide. If a post should ever be reported I would say that one.

Doodle

You’re right Glorianny, you really don’t understand. Like many others who refer to God in the same sentence as the tooth fairy or Santa. You don’t believe and don’t have faith so cannot understand what it means for those of us who do, to pray.
No I don’t just forget about it and go on my merry way.

What do you do please? What do you think is your personal responsibility and how do you act on it?

You've jut referred to God in the same sentence as the tooth fairy and Santa Doodledog. I haven't.

I think religious beliefs are interesting and prayer is part of that. What anyone expects from their prayers I don't know.
I would imagine there are Israelis praying for an Israeli victory.
Palestinians praying for the bombing to stop.
Hamas praying they kill more Jews.
Who does God listen to?

The religion I have most respect for as far as war is concerned is the Quakers who have always stood for peace.

I've been campaigning for the UK to stop participating in the world arms trade and stop selling weapons which are being used in conflicts for a long time now.
Saudi Arabia is one example, Israel another. I don't see how anyone can support the supply of weapons which are being used to kill innocent people and in particular children. But strangely some Christians do.
My personal responsibility is to write to my MP, support organisations like the Campaign Against Arms Trade caat.org.uk/take-action/
Wear a white poppy and support their peace campaign.
And generally try to oppose the rise of militarism wherever I see it.
I don't go on demos as much as I used to.

Ilovecheese

I find Callistemon21 's post offensive. My socialist views are often regarded on here as "far left" I have no tendency to warmongering or genocide. If a post should ever be reported I would say that one.

Silly post.

There's a difference between mainstream socialism, even the type of further-to-the-left socialism as seen in the UK and communism as practised in regimes around the world.

Most people understand that.

I wouldn't vote for Corbyn but I can see that he is a well-meaning, basically decent man.

It is interesting that the only justification, or explanation, of what prayer is for, are personal attacks on me, and on the left wing. No one apparently can answer my questions reasonably or explain anything.

😁

Oh, the irony!

Callistemon21

Ilovecheese

I find Callistemon21 's post offensive. My socialist views are often regarded on here as "far left" I have no tendency to warmongering or genocide. If a post should ever be reported I would say that one.

Silly post.

There's a difference between mainstream socialism, even the type of further-to-the-left socialism as seen in the UK and communism as practised in regimes around the world.

Most people understand that.

I wouldn't vote for Corbyn but I can see that he is a well-meaning, basically decent man.

Perhaps instead of calling people "silly" you would like to explain who you include in the "far left" Callistemon21 . It is after all a description used of many of us who post on GN. It isn't at all silly therefore to assume that is who your post is aimed at. If not perhaps an explanation is due.

Do any of you read The Guardian online's 'Gaza Diary'? It is written by Zaid, a 35 year old Palestinian, currently trying to survive in the war zone. I would recommend it to one and all.

Gloryanny I’m sorry I did not mean that you personally said God was like the tooth fairy or Santa but that you were like those who do say that because like them you don’t have faith. Likewise when you said “ I don't see how anyone can support the supply of weapons which are being used to kill innocent people and in particular children. But strangely some Christians do.” I didn’t take it to mean me. My comments were not meant as a personal attack against you.

My question about what your consider your personal responsibility and how you act on it was genuine. And you have given a considered answer.

Now my next question is, Has it worked? Has your personal responsibility had any more impact on what’s going on than my prayer and the prayers of others to a God I believe listens.

You make it sound as though my prayers count for nothing while your actions are positive. Who’s to say?

I disagree that the Lords Prayer is a prayer to change oneself. I believe it’s a prayer for all people that why the words are Our Father, ….give US this day not give me.

Just to clarify, I don’t support the sale of arms to anyone. I do pray and hope for peace in all parts of the world where there is violence and warfare and have equal sympathy and concern for all in Gaza no matter what their religion.

One final point, just in case you blame someone else for my words, I am not Doodledog who is a completely different person.

Apologies about the misnaming Doodle.
As far as the Santa and tooth fairy remark goes I think it is offensive to those of us who have not conventional beliefs or who believe God is not an entity who can be appealed to and who have reached our decision after much consideration.

CAAT has records of achievement caat.org.uk/about-caat/our-successes/#:~:text=In%202019%20the%20Court%20of,
I have been involved in preventing BAE systems becoming sponsors for events, an attempt to make arms dealing more acceptable.

What have you done to prevent the UK selling arms?

The words of the Lord's prayer are said collectively, but the prayer is for the individual to forgive others and to have their own sins forgiven

The Lords Prayer is plural,

Gloryanny. The remarks about God being the same as the tooth fairy or Santa were directed to me and other Christian’s on GN on more than one occasion over the years.
The remarks were not aimed at those without faith but were said with sarcasm and scorn by some and directed to those of us who have.

What have I done about preventing arms being sold. Absolutely nothing.
My point is that for me, my prayers are as my way of doing things. . I appreciate you take personal action makes you feel you are helping prevent wars but my prayers are my way.

Thank you for your considered replies. I am bowing out now, not in a huff but because I need to concentrate more on my personal problems at home.

The Lord's prayer is not the only prayer.Glorianny

Glorianny

Callistemon21

Ilovecheese

I find Callistemon21 's post offensive. My socialist views are often regarded on here as "far left" I have no tendency to warmongering or genocide. If a post should ever be reported I would say that one.

Silly post.

There's a difference between mainstream socialism, even the type of further-to-the-left socialism as seen in the UK and communism as practised in regimes around the world.

Most people understand that.

I wouldn't vote for Corbyn but I can see that he is a well-meaning, basically decent man.

Perhaps instead of calling people "silly" you would like to explain who you include in the "far left" Callistemon21 . It is after all a description used of many of us who post on GN. It isn't at all silly therefore to assume that is who your post is aimed at. If not perhaps an explanation is due.

I explained previously.

I'm not sure what part of my post you don't understand.

Extreme far-left (communism) is askin to extreme far-right (fascism) and both are known for their tendency to warmongering and genocide.

The terms are just used as lazy attacks, as is attacking people of faiths for their views.

Politics in the UK is nowhere near those extremes of far-right and far-left and neither are the views of posters on GN, as far as I know.

Callistemon21

The Lord's prayer is not the only prayer.*Glorianny*

I didn't say it was I did say it was the only one with which I am familiar. Post any others you like- once again no actual reasoning just criticism of me.

Callistemon21

Glorianny

Callistemon21

Ilovecheese

I find Callistemon21 's post offensive. My socialist views are often regarded on here as "far left" I have no tendency to warmongering or genocide. If a post should ever be reported I would say that one.

Silly post.

There's a difference between mainstream socialism, even the type of further-to-the-left socialism as seen in the UK and communism as practised in regimes around the world.

Most people understand that.

I wouldn't vote for Corbyn but I can see that he is a well-meaning, basically decent man.

Perhaps instead of calling people "silly" you would like to explain who you include in the "far left" Callistemon21 . It is after all a description used of many of us who post on GN. It isn't at all silly therefore to assume that is who your post is aimed at. If not perhaps an explanation is due.

I explained previously.

I'm not sure what part of my post you don't understand.

Extreme far-left (communism) is askin to extreme far-right (fascism) and both are known for their tendency to warmongering and genocide.

The terms are just used as lazy attacks, as is attacking people of faiths for their views.

Politics in the UK is nowhere near those extremes of far-right and far-left and neither are the views of posters on GN, as far as I know.

So why bother to post it in the middle of what was to be a discussion about the reasons for and effectiveness of prayer?
And then insult someone because you were not clear in your post.