So pleased to see hostages being released.

I am honestly interested in the opinion of those who think Israel is in the wrong: what would you suggest the IDF does differently in the battle to remove Hamas?
Or are you suggesting Israel allow Hamas to remain?
7/10 was a watershed moment for everyone in Israel, even the left-leaning, peace activists like me. Once that organization has shown us what their intentions are, AND what they can actually do, and they've promised to do it again and again how can Israel NOT fight them till the end?
Yes the idea will remain. But the terror capabilities can't.
That's the lesson of 7/10.
The best military advisors say Israel is doing all it can to minimize civilian deaths. I seriously question the numbers coming out of Hamas but yes there are tragic casualties.
Please do tell me what you'd recommend Israel do differently - I'd love to know.

Philippa60, I am conflicted. I support Israel’s right to defend itself. Israel is the only democracy in the region. Its very existence is under threat. I’m tired of people who criticise Balfour and say the 1947 agreement was simply wrong. The implication is Israel has no right to exist.
I loathe terrorism, Hamas is a murderous terrorist organisation. The attempt to shift responsibility for the Israeli response away from what triggered it, onto history is something that makes me despair.
I read the news, watch sone tv coverage, listen to the bbc radio coverage and despair some more. Mass slaughter of children and their families as part of the objective of destroying Hamas is I believe likely to make more new supporters of Hamas.
It’s obvious that a diplomatic solution is needed. I do understand how difficult it is to negotiate with terrorists.
We need the leaders of key countries in the region, the US and Europe to work as I’m sure they are doing, behind the scenes in an attempt to stop the killing. I include stopping the daily attacks on Israel

Sadly history is relevant and what it teaches us is that repression and poverty leads to terrorism and it's impossible to destroy terrorism unless you remove the repression and poverty first because that's what gives terrorism it's oxygen and recruits. Try asking yourself if you were Palestinian and lived in Gaza or on the West Bank how you would feel and what you would want for yourself and your family and I think it's easier to know what would Israel needs to do. I don't believe young men turn to terrorism because they are evil it's because they feel they have no future. Israel was created by men who turned to violence and terrorism but they ended up with a nation and were in positions of power. I think Hamas believes they could do the same.

Posters keep repeating that Israel will be at peace once it defeats Hamas. Well, first it’ll need to conquer Syria, eliminate Hezbollah and Ansarallah, achieve regime change in Iran, and defeat all the new enemies these military campaigns will create along the way.

The only way to peace is through fair, negotiated settlements which respect Palestinian claims as well as Israel’s.

Vintagewhine do you list Russian Pogroms, German Holocaust as caused by poverty ?

Iam64 and Vintagewhine
In theory I completely agree that the Palestinians need a horizon for a better economic future. I think it's important to understand that was the idea.
Israel was allowing tens of thousands of Palestinians into Israel to work, where they earn a lot more than in Gaza. We thought this would give them an incentive for peaceful coexistence. But what happened? Many of those who came into Israel to work, were collecting intelligence which was used to attack on Oct 7th. Unbelievable but true.
Also many of those attacked on 7/10 were peace activists who used to drive Gazans to hospital appointments in top Israeli hospitals. These very same good people were murdered and taken hostage on 7/10.
All of the billions of aid given to Gaza could have built industry and infrastructure and created an amazing economy (they are on the coast of the Mediterranean with an amazing beach - think of the tourism) but instead all that money was poured into terror. Thank you, Hamas.
So it's a really tragic vicious circle and I am so sad that I don't see a way out.
Re a diplomatic resolution, this is of course the best way. But how can you negotiate with someone whose stated aim is to wipe you off the map?
Israel has NEVER said this about its Palestinian neighbors, but they refuse to acknowledge Israel's right to exist within secure borders.
So again - what is the solution?
As you can see I hope, I am a pragmatic, peace-seeking Israeli (as well as a Brit!) and I am honestly asking....

Sorry Philippa but you are wrong about Israel not wanting to remove Palestinians. Ben Gvir, Smotrich and the Israeli ambassador to the UK, Tzipi Hotovely, have all said they don't want Palestinians in land they regard as belonging to Israel.

Anniebach

Vintagewhine do you list Russian Pogroms, German Holocaust as caused by poverty ?

This isn't relevant. Victims of pogroms and the holocaust weren't terrorists.

Do you live in Israel, growstuff? Just wondering.

Philippa60 Yes. NYTimes ran a long an article about this 16th Dec.23. Check it out. Israel Found the Hamas Money Machine Years Ago. Nobody Turned it Off.

nanna8

Do you live in Israel, growstuff? Just wondering.

Why does it matter?

I can read and hear. I've watched the Israeli ambassador on UK TV and seen videos of Ben Gvir and Smotrich on international TV.

Sorry. That reply was to all that money turned into terror.

There are still Jews living in Arab countries. A lot did indeed move to Israel due to encouragement from Israel and probably fear of unknown.
I married and lived in an Arab country in the 70s and my husbands family were Christian and had Jewish friends. I never heard anything derogatory about them.
I have been reading some of the posts on this thread, it is very amazing and refreshing to know us ‘oldies’ are so interested in what is going on.
As for an answer? I just want people to live together in peace, but unfortunately there are politics in play and it becomes something with too many interests from outside and inside the situation.

Farzanah

Philippa60 Yes. NYTimes ran a long an article about this 16th Dec.23. Check it out. Israel Found the Hamas Money Machine Years Ago. Nobody Turned it Off.

It's weird. Israel knew about the money laundering and it also encouraged Qatar to send money to Gaza. Israel also knew about the tunnels and the rockets, so it wouldn't have taken a genius to work out that much of the money was going into the construction of the tunnels and buying and importing weapons. It's strange that Netanyahu ignored it for so long.

Maybe it's true that Netanyahu hoped to placate Gaza and hoped to split Fatah and Hamas, while allowing the settlements in the West Bank.

Do they really? The question of why the hostage negotiations broke down is questionable. Israel blames Hamas. Hamas says it wanted to discuss releasing older people but Israel insisted it must be women. Hamas considers some of the women soldiers as they areIDF. Israel then walked out. How do you stop an invasion?

Growstuff: you are quoting people (Ben Gvir and Smotrich) who are on the far right of Israeli politics, awful extremists, absolutely not the consensus of opinion here pre-7/10.
I have never heard the ambassador say that, maybe you can point me to your source. I did hear her say that a 2-state solution is not viable, but she explained it very badly. She should explain that it is not viable because of the Palestinians, who don't agree to it, not because of Israel.

BN's behavior will be the subject of a major inquiry. He has a LOT to answer for.

Israel is worried that the last 13 women held have been subject to extensive sexual abuse. We worry that Hamas will never release them because they don't want them to talk about what they experienced.
Some of them are female soldiers (like Na'ama Levy) but most are not. Why wouldn't Hamas release them? What about Shiri Bibas and her 2 children, Kfir (1) and Ariel (4).
Many here assume they have been killed.

I think there is a realization that Israel should have agreed to the release of elderly male back when the exchanges broke down.

I am very impressed by everyone on this thread - the level of interest and knowledge about the situation is amazing.
As long as we can have a respectful debate, I am happy to stay around

"Growstuff: you are quoting people (Ben Gvir and Smotrich) who are on the far right of Israeli politics, awful extremists, absolutely not the consensus of opinion here pre-7/10."

Problem is though, when you have men like this in your govt in positions of power (Finance minister, national security, defence) they call the shots and that is what they are doing. Ben Gvir handed out 1,000s of guns to illegal settlers in the West Bank!

Exactly! Both Ben Gvir and Smotrich are government ministers. They're not just nobodies with loud mouths.

Any consensus is irrelevant if an electoral system allows such people to have power.

Tzipi Hotovely was apparently hand-picked to be UK ambassador by Netanyahu. A number of prominent British Jews objected when she was appointed because they disliked her far-right politics. If Netanyahu disagrees with what Hotovely says, why was he so keen to support her?

I've seen Hotovely a number of times on British TV. I'm not sure I can find links, but I'll try. No, she didn't say a two-state solution is impossible because of Hamas. She claimed the whole area belonged to Israel.

Are you talking about www.theguardian.com/world/2015/may/22/israels-new-deputy-foreign-minister-this-land-is-ours-all-of-it-is-ours ? She said

"In an inaugural address to Israeli diplomats, Hotovely said Israel has tried too hard to appease the world and must stand up for itself.

“We need to return to the basic truth of our rights to this country,” she said. “This land is ours. All of it is ours. We did not come here to apologise for that.”

Hotovely, an Orthodox Jew, laced her speech with biblical commentaries in which God promised the land of Israel to the Jews. Speaking later in English, she signalled that she would try to rally global recognition for West Bank settlements, which are widely opposed.

“We expect as a matter of principle of the international community to recognise Israel’s right to build homes for Jews in their homeland, everywhere,” she said.

Thank you for that Elegran. I hadn't seen that article, but I remember the furore when she was appointed as ambassador in 2020. A number of British Jewish organisations objected and they quoted very similar sentiments. I've seen her on TV a few times over the last few weeks. She's rude, speaks over interviewers and doesn't answer questions, but has repeated a number of times that Israel won't accept a two-state solution. She has also justified the bombing of every building in Gaza.

There is also this article in al Jazeera 1 Jan 2018 www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/1/1/palestinians-condemn-israeli-plans-to-annex-west-bank

"On Sunday, about 1,500 members of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu‘s Likud party voted unanimously to impose Israeli sovereignty over “Judea and Samaria”, referring to the Israeli name for the occupied Palestinian territory."

^"“Likud’s decision to impose Israeli control over the occupied West Bank represents an end to the remnants of the peace process,” Fatah, which is headed by Palestinian Authority chairman Mahmoud Abbas, said in a statement.

“This decision is a blow to all previously signed agreements, and an unforgivable violation of UN resolutions, the latest of which was resolution 2334, that the West Bank, including Jerusalem, is occupied territory.” said Fatah.

"Hamas also condemned Likud’s move, calling it a “policy of aggression against the Palestinian people” that was “taking advantage of American positions, including [Donald] Trump’s dangerous declaration” – a reference to the US president recognition of Jerusalem as Israel’s capital on December 6."

Included in the article is a link to a video of an interview in 2017 with www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOxZP5xQib0 about that declaration by Trump, ""The two-state solution, from the US point of view and mediation, is dead." He said.

All of which begs the question that if the two-state solution is dead, what is the Israeli solution?

How do you stop an invasion?
Glorianny ..
By not slaughtering innocent adolescents at a concert?
By not tying innocent families together and setting them on fire?
By not burning and beheading babies?
And last but not least by conceding defeat and stopping this mayhem in favour of saving Palistinian lives?

Hamas is a death cult. As opposed to Israel which has/is looking to make life worth living for ALL people in the area.