So pleased to see hostages being released.

Pretty incredible to me that Israel is to be investigated for war crimes, when their every action is monitored and approved (or not) by lawyers, but Hamas (!) is not accused of war crimes???

uklficharity.com/qa-on-international-law-of-armed-conflict-and-gaza

Another article which talks about the "regular" Palestinians who participated in October 7th...

torontosun.com/opinion/columnists/kinsella-ordinary-palestinian-citizens-aided-and-abetted-hamas-on-oct-7

There was a Gazan man interviewed on Israeli TV last night (so brave of him!) saying that there are indeed good honest Gazans who would like nothing more than for Israel to take control of Gaza and free them of Hamas, bring them to a much better standard of living.
I have no idea if this is a one-off, and anyway it won't happen, Israel has NO desire to run Gaza, but only to ensure another terror state does not emerge there on the ruins of Hamas.
But I do wonder how more of the regular Gazan citizens are not rising up against Hamas, especially now that they are weakened and after they clearly brought such ruin on the people...?

Thank you for posting these articles Philippa. They are extremely illuminating. Sadly I feel many will dismiss them. Please continue to post nonetheless.

Philippa60

Pretty incredible to me that Israel is to be investigated for war crimes, when their every action is monitored and approved (or not) by lawyers, but Hamas (!) is not accused of war crimes???

uklficharity.com/qa-on-international-law-of-armed-conflict-and-gaza

It’s called anti Semitism . A lot of it about, especially now.

Thank you Phillippa

nanna8

Philippa60

Pretty incredible to me that Israel is to be investigated for war crimes, when their every action is monitored and approved (or not) by lawyers, but Hamas (!) is not accused of war crimes???

uklficharity.com/qa-on-international-law-of-armed-conflict-and-gaza

It’s called anti Semitism . A lot of it about, especially now.

No, it just is not. Many of those who are openly and strongly criticising Netanyahu and the IDFs actions, are Jewish, and many of them from Israel. Are they antisemitic? They are the first to say that the accusations of 'antisemitism' everytime what is happening is criticised, is just to silence people. And that it is a very shameful use of this accusation.

Hamas is not a 'Government' in so many ways. And everyone has condemned the brutal and vile attacks of 7th October in the strongest of terms.

Hamas has, quite rightly, been accused of war crimes.

It is clear to others that Israel is also guilty of war crimes, despite their best efforts at propaganda to refute this.

Have you read South Africa’s submission? You should
www.icj-cij.org/case/192

Thank you Fleurpepper.
It is really not necessary to de humanise one side of a conflict, the whole situation is awful.
Criticism of the actions of the Government of Israel is not anti semitism .

Here is an article about how the accusations of 'antisemitism' has been weaponised to shut down any dissent within Israel - or in the world. The changes in the description of the word were deliberately changed to achieve this, and this has been very heavily criticised

''We can assert, from our perspective, that this instrumentalization of the fight against antisemitism for the interests of the Israeli government’s agenda, including through the IHRA definition, creates another type of racism: anti-Palestinian racism. Anti-Palestinian racism has been described by the Arab-Canadian Lawyers Association (ACLA) as “a form of anti-Arab racism that silences, excludes, erases, stereotypes, defames or dehumanizes Palestinians or their narratives.” It takes various forms described in a landmark report from the ACLA, including “defaming Palestinians and their allies with slander such as being inherently antisemitic, a terrorist threat/sympathizer or opposed to democratic values.”

Full article

https://carnegie-mec/diwan/89880

This televised debate, with audience vote, by IQ2
asked the question 'Is Zionism? the same as Antisemitism'.

The audience was very mixed in their own assessment, but changed their mind in a very significant way after the debate, with 2 pro the motion and 2 against. Really worth watching.

youtu.be/K1VTt_THL4A?feature=shared

Oreo Anniebach 👍 Thank you

Anti semitism is Alice and growing as demonstrated occasionally on these threads.
It has not been weaponised to shut down debate in Israel or the world. Look at the debate here. Watch the pro Palestinian marches, read your own words that the US and UK stand alone in ‘supporting’ Israel. It really is much more complicated than siding with one or the other

Iam64, I agree about the anti-semitism on the rise. My friends and family around the world are truly horrified and scared. Many are considering leaving their homes and moving to Israel.
Seeing stars of David painted on homes in Paris has such echoes of the 1930s that it is hardly surprising that people are very worried.
It is a small minority of Jews around the world who don't support Israel (and that does not mean they support everything it does, or all of its government policies).
It's important to understand that for the vast majority of Jews worldwide, Israel acts as a "safety net" and a place they know they can move to if the world rises up against them, just as it did during the Holocaust.

Another useful source of information:
ashleychurch.com/israel-and-hamas-the-facts/

Oreo

I think peace is a long way off tbh.The best to be hoped for is aid getting into Gaza that hamas don’t steal, Palestinians realising what hamas has brought down on them and that they are the real enemy here, and Israel bringing this conflict to as swift an end as they possibly can while achieving their goals.

Oreo - this is spot on. (Sorry, I am still working my way through the entire thread, now on page 20..)

40Fleurpepper
This televised debate, with audience vote, by IQ2 asked the audience
Is Zionism the same as anti-semitism?
Did you mean anti-Zionism ?

Yes, my mistake, of course. Very clear if you watch the debate.

Pretty clear as a basic concept IMHO

Philippa60

Iam64, I agree about the anti-semitism on the rise. My friends and family around the world are truly horrified and scared. Many are considering leaving their homes and moving to Israel.
Seeing stars of David painted on homes in Paris has such echoes of the 1930s that it is hardly surprising that people are very worried.
It is a small minority of Jews around the world who don't support Israel (and that does not mean they support everything it does, or all of its government policies).
It's important to understand that for the vast majority of Jews worldwide, Israel acts as a "safety net" and a place they know they can move to if the world rises up against them, just as it did during the Holocaust.

What is clear, is that the perspective of many Jewish people, from all over the world and Israel, is very varied. I respect yours, of course. But I do find it 'hard' to be told that the reactions to the current situation by my own Jewish friends, some who have already moved out, due to Netanyahu, or who are desperately trying to get out now, or get their adult children and grandchildren out.

No-one is denying the rise in anti-semitism- but a lot of antizionism and strong criticism of Netanyahu, his total failure to prevent 7th of October attack (despite getting very clear warnings and inteliigence- and having the means to detect and stop before it happened) is NOT anti-semitism- and accusations that it is- is perceived by many Jews themselves as just a tactic to silence criticism.

If Jewish people are afraid of antisemitism and retaliation- Israel is by far the most dangerous place to be now. Thanks to Netanyahu and the actions of the IDF.

I know you can't or won't see it, it does not make it nay less real.

Fleurpepper, I respect your opinion on this, but clearly see things very differently.

Anniebach

The Met are investigating Israel for war crimes

Our Metropolitan Police?

What has it to do with them?

They were sooo close to the pro Palestinian marches

Phillippa I thank you for your posts and links ,i learn much

I read that complaints were made to the Met of war crimes - that’s the reason for the investigation
I disagree strongly with your analysis anc views fleurpepper
Of course there are Jewish people who disagree strongly with Netanyahu. Some of those are likely to be amongst the numbers who are considering moving to Israel because of the rise of anti semitism in europe

I have also learnt a lot from the links posted by Philippa. Thank you Philippa.

Stephen Fry made a gentle Christmas message, he spoke of the rise in antisemitism ,nothing political or judgemental, he is still receiving vile abuse