6 Day Doctors Strike

Ziplok

I agree about the label “Junior doctors”. It’s outdated and causes a whole load of misunderstanding, as evidenced on this thread.

It is time that the label junior doctors was abolished. I don't know why doctors put up with people thinking that a junior doctor must be inexperienced or fresh out of medical school. The term is disrespectful.

I agree too.

In fact, although you say it is outdated, Ziplok, it must be relatively new as the term junior doctor includes those who were not so long ago known as house officers, senior house officers and specialty registrars.

Casdon those issues you mention are ones I mentioned earlier amd are indeed part of the problem, which is why PA’s need to be regulated.

As to why GP surgeries employ them, that’s simple. They’re cheaper than a real doctor but tick the right boxes!

foxie thank you for information regarding the degree course a PA may hold. I was under the impression that any degree would qualify, but from what you say, it needs to be health or science related. That at least is a relief, but only a small one. PAs are inadequately trained or prepared and people will become very ill or die because they’ve not seen a properly qualified doctor. I find it all extremely frightening, and totally irresponsible by the government. There is no need for this role, we have properly qualified nurses who can treat a range of illnesses and conditions, and they will refer on to the doctors where necessary.

After advice from the Pharmacist I paid for antibiotic eye drops in our village for my conjunctivitis last November.
The junior doctors strike scares me, I was in A&E last June when a strike was on, the treatment I had, for a condition that may recur, was brutal, as confirmed to me at a follow up appointment. I’m spending the next 5 days with my fingers crossed.

I would rather be treated by a PA than a one year medic

Oh my Lord. Two years of training rather than seven years!

From what I’ve read, it’s already happened.

ronib

Also some assumptions are being made that the PA I saw wasn’t under qualified. I think 4 years degree to masters level plus 2 years specialised training. He wasn’t just newly out of medical school either and knew his stuff. PAs have the option of converting to full medical status I believe.

The degree a PA holds can be anything. So a PA could hold a degree in the lesser spotted wigwag bird! Or realistically, Drama, European History, Geography, English Literature, or any other subject. Could you please enlighten me as to how a subject completely unrelated to Medicine, or even the human body, can possibly be well qualified?

Additionally how can two years post grad training in any way be equated to the six year medical degree course that my daughter took? Then two years training as F1 and F2? Followed by a further year working in the Specialism of Mental Health, followed by three full years training as a GP (GP is consultant level for those unaware.) And all that before she was considered completely trained. How can two years training equate with that???
Where is all the Pharmacology and Physiology that she spent two solid years studying at university? I’m shocked that so many of you are totally unaware of what it takes to become a doctor.

Ronb I’m pleased that your conjunctivitis was sorted out satisfactorily. It is a very painful condition and can easily become serious if left untreated. However a nurse could have treated you just as well.
It used to be possible to buy treatment from the pharmacy for conjunctivitis, but the government changed the rules because too many pharmacies were making mistakes, so now you need to see a doctor/medic to get the right diagnosis and treatment.

Wait for it ladies, there will be mistakes made by PAs and people will receive incorrect diagnosis and treatment. It’s only a matter of time.

a nurse having to teach them how to cannulate

I can’t believe I’ve just read this complete rubbish!
My daughter learned to cannulate whilst she was a student! A medical student, not a nurse, nor an over paid, not even half trained PA! She actually practiced on her dad! Where does this total rubbish come from. If a nurse was showing anyone how to cannulate, they were students, not already qualified doctors.

And, I suspect, failure to recognise their limitations. If you’re not aware that symptoms you’re presented with may be of conditions A or B because you only have knowledge of A, do you seek the assistance of a doctor or gaily go ahead and diagnose the only condition you’re aware of, whereas in fact the patient is suffering from B?

Personally? I think lack of supervision Casdon.

SueDonim

The bottom line is that PA’s are not doctors, they do not have the same skills (if they did, they’d be called doctors) and trying to fob off the public that they are the same thing is taking us for fools.

My understanding though is that some general practices are choosing to employ PAs, so the role must be seen by their businesses to have a role to play.
I wonder if it isn’t the role or qualifications of these individuals that is the issue so much as a combination of lack of role clarity, lack of medical supervision, and a lack on the part of the PAs in recognising their own limitations.

Well the medical profession in the guise of the BMA is certainly taking us for fools that’s for sure.

The bottom line is that PA’s are not doctors, they do not have the same skills (if they did, they’d be called doctors) and trying to fob off the public that they are the same thing is taking us for fools.

We have a 10,000 shortage of doctors

Primrose53

Caught the tail end of a discussion about junior doctors strike just now.

They explained what a Physician Associate is. Someone with a Masters degree and 2 years training rather than the 6 years that Junior doctors do. It also said they are paid quite a bit more. Didn’t know that.

Thankyou or telling me this

I have a telephone appointment on Monday in Outpatients with a Trainee Physician Associate.
So you do not see a ''proper'' doctor now.

Master’s degrees from Oxford and Cambridge may be applied for following graduation with a bachelor’s degree, no further study required …

Primrose53

foxie48

Primrose53

ronib

PAs need a masters degree. That’s a 4 year course.

Yes, I said that in my earlier post.

But you don't!

?????

You need a first degree in either a life or health science followed by EITHER a two year diploma course or an accredited Masters which is almost certainly a two year course of study (you can do a masters in less time than that!). I put a link to the requirements which you haven't noticed!

Thank you Iam and SueDonim for your kind comments. I probably overshared this evening and stirred up emotions which lie just below the surface.

Surely it also depends on initial degree and Masters subject

foxie48

Primrose53

ronib

PAs need a masters degree. That’s a 4 year course.

Yes, I said that in my earlier post.

But you don't!

?????

Urmston, give yourself a break. It sounds as though, as was the case with mr i and many others, it wasn’t obvious it was serious, until it was and by then rather late to take effective action.

SueDonim, thanks for your info on PA’s. Some posters seem to believe an MA qualifies these people to replace our GP’s. The PA I saw confirmed she had a Masters but I wasn’t impressed either by her experience or people skills.
I’m not resistant to change, I’m pleased our ANP can prescribe. I’d like to see our excellent pharmacist able to prescribe. He had to refer me to my GP after a minor dog bite needed anti biotic.

Primrose53

ronib

PAs need a masters degree. That’s a 4 year course.

Yes, I said that in my earlier post.

But you don't!

ronib

PAs need a masters degree. That’s a 4 year course.

Yes, I said that in my earlier post.

ronib

PAs need a masters degree. That’s a 4 year course.

MAPs, which include PAs, do a two year course but need a health or life science degree first, you can either do the two year diploma or take a more academic route by doing an accredited master's degree which is either 1 or 2 years. More information below.
uk.indeed.com/career-advice/finding-a-job/how-to-become-physician-associate

PAs need a masters degree. That’s a 4 year course.