Is escalating the conflict by bombing the Houthis the way to go?

winterwhite

I agree with Whitewave, Grammaretto, Glorianny and all who think that no good will come of this.

I also deplore this country’s involvement in the arms trade. How many of the regimes in the Near East have been armed by Britain?

My questions are

When will we stop bombing Yemen? What if they continue, what if Iran gets involved? What if other groups supportive of Gaza and Yemen get involved?

What will it do to the Saudi Arabian/Yemen peace agreement?

Very valid questions Whitewave.
Seems to me that what all this boils down to is that some of us think that the Houthi attacks on Red Sea shipping are terrorist acts against non-participants that can only be stopped by military means. Others of us think that meeting aggression with aggression rarely achieves anything lasting and can lead to broadening of the original conflict. We could almost have a straw poll.
IMO this war, like the war in Ukraine, will not stop until one side or the other is exhausted, either financially or in manpower.

ronib

Glorianny who is The Mission? Iran?

It's the International Fact finding Mission of the Human Rights Council

[Source : Human Rights Council, Fifteenth session, Report of the international fact-finding mission to investigate violations of international law, including international humanitarian and human rights law, resulting from the Israeli attacks on the flotilla of ships carrying humanitarian assistance, A/HRC/15/21, 27 September 2010; available at www.ohchr.org/FR/Pages/Home.aspx ; footnotes omitted]

www.ohchr.org/fr/ohchr_homepage

Why would you imagine it was Iranian? Is preventing the passage of peaceful shipping legal or illegal? It can't be right for one country and wrong for another. That's what International Law means

Glorianny this Human Rights Council is under the auspices of the United Nations?

Iran is chair?

No one has yet answered the question of how you sort out a conflict peacefully or diplomatically if one party refuses to take part in any such initiative, whatever the reason, or where the driving force behind the conflict is a country not directly involved and denying any involvement

So please would those saying that peaceful means are the only way, tell us what they would do in these circumstances and not keep chickening out.

ronib

Iran is chair?

Not when this happened rnib but good try.

This seems to be the philosophy on this thread.
Blame all wrongdoing on the people you disagree with. The whole point of this is no one's hands are clean. Not Israel's, not Iran's, not Hamas, not the Houthis,not the Saudi's, not the US and sadly not the UK. The only innocents are the people of Gaza and Yemen, bombed, slaughtered, starved, wracked by disease and homeless.
And blaming just one section simply continues the discord and adds to the death toll.

M0nica

No one has yet answered the question of how you sort out a conflict peacefully or diplomatically if one party refuses to take part in any such initiative, whatever the reason, or where the driving force behind the conflict is a country not directly involved and denying any involvement

So please would those saying that peaceful means are the only way, tell us what they would do in these circumstances and not keep chickening out.

Well the first step is a complete cessation of the bombing of Gaza and the withdrawal of Israeli troops.
They then need to at least agree in principle to the idea of restoring some of the land they took by force.
The concept that Hamas will not negotiate is historically inaccurate they have done so in the past.
It is Zionists in Israel who have rejected the two state solution.

Glorianny seems to me on a dozy afternoon that the UN needs to headed up by countries not involved in the wars. There’s a lot of mistrust and it’s not helping to find solutions.
Have you forgotten that there are innocent Israelis too?

We do like our "goodies" and "baddies" when in fact the lines are very blurred and the only innocents are those being slaughtered.

Bella23..quite! I wonder why it is always Britain that gets involved when other countries are affected too and should help. We have a good relationship with USA and I am grateful for that. I wonder whether the BBC will refer to the houthis as terrorists...if they don't, heads need to roll

Glorianny..the people of those countries voted for terrorists and still support what they do.

ronib

Glorianny seems to me on a dozy afternoon that the UN needs to headed up by countries not involved in the wars. There’s a lot of mistrust and it’s not helping to find solutions.
Have you forgotten that there are innocent Israelis too?

There are innocents in all the countries with unclean hands rnib that doesn't absolve the country. None of those countries are suffering the death and destruction they have imposed on Gaza and Yemen.

First of all we have moved beyond absolving and we want all this bloodshed to stop.
Would you not consider that Hamas, Hezbelloh, Houthis have a firm grip on their own individual countries? Probably encouraged to some extent by other Middle Eastern countries. When Hamas deliberately attacked Israel, it was a deliberate long term strategy to start war. You can claim that it was a justified attack but as we can see now, it’s spreading out to other countries and even more people will die. It feels like a whirlpool of terror and destruction that is going faster and faster with no end in sight.

AGAA4

We do like our "goodies" and "baddies" when in fact the lines are very blurred and the only innocents are those being slaughtered.

I was just thinking that.

Freshair

Glorianny..the people of those countries voted for terrorists and still support what they do.

What! The people of Gaza last voted in 2006
Most of the population wouldn't have been eligible to vote then.
In 2017 Hamas actually agreed to support a two state solution
In A Document of General Principles and Policies issued in 2017, the organization acknowledged “the establishment of a fully sovereign and independent Palestinian state, with Jerusalem as its capital along the lines of the 4th of June 1967, with the return of the refugees and the displaced to their homes from which they were expelled” as a “formula of national consensus.”
Let's not forget Israel has consistently refused to comply with a UN resolution instructing them to return to the Palestinians land they took by force.
This really isn't one sided conflict. And the people who are being killed are not the people who decided anything. They are simply the victims.

ronib

First of all we have moved beyond absolving and we want all this bloodshed to stop.
Would you not consider that Hamas, Hezbelloh, Houthis have a firm grip on their own individual countries? Probably encouraged to some extent by other Middle Eastern countries. When Hamas deliberately attacked Israel, it was a deliberate long term strategy to start war. You can claim that it was a justified attack but as we can see now, it’s spreading out to other countries and even more people will die. It feels like a whirlpool of terror and destruction that is going faster and faster with no end in sight.

No if you look at the history of Gaza and the other Palestinian territories which should be a united entity for Palestinans there has been repeated internal conflict.
Hezbollah control the Lebanon after a sustained period of civil war and an Israeli invasion.
The Houthis control a large area of Yemen.
Hamas may have realised war would result. I would imagine just as there are people in many countries who care little for civilian casualties Hamas has similar ideas.
The decision to bomb, invade and ignore the fate of the hostages is entirely Israeli.

Glorianny what in your opinion should Israel have done differently to retrieve their hostages?

AGAA4

We do like our "goodies" and "baddies" when in fact the lines are very blurred and the only innocents are those being slaughtered.

Yes.

monica

In my view, the only way forward is a complete ceasefire, and a two state solution accepted by Israel.

Hamas are not the only players in the game and I have no doubt that the PNA would be willing to take part in the ceasefire and subsequent two state talks. Hamas I am convinced would loose its grip once the Palestinians in the Gaza Strip could see the greater prize of peace, complete sovereignty - not the Israeli occupied state they have been living under- and prosperity.

Israel must give up its expansionism, and leave all the illegal settler land.

The PNA could the persuade the Houthis to cease their “support” of Gaza by firing at shipping in the Red Sea with connections to Israel.

No one says that this will be easy, but my goodness it must be so much easier than the alternative, which risks not only Lebanon and Iran joining in but also Russia and possibly China .

There are very few innocents in Yemen or Gaza other than children.
The first thing that should happen in Gaza is that all the Israeli hostages be freed.
I am very sure who the bad guys are, hamas and the houthis, it’s a no brainer.

Lebanon and Iran won’t join in whitewavemark2 neither will Russia or China.
Lebanon is an economically exhausted country.Iran enjoys playing behind the scenes and bankrolling terrorist groups to hit the West but won’t want an all out war.Russia has enough problems at home and with the war in Ukraine and China only looks out for itself and won’t damage its trade.

ronib

Glorianny what in your opinion should Israel have done differently to retrieve their hostages?

They should have agreed to a change of priorities. Hamas regarded some of the women as active participants and wanted to discuss the release of older people.Israel refused and walked away.

Oreo

There are very few innocents in Yemen or Gaza other than children.
The first thing that should happen in Gaza is that all the Israeli hostages be freed.
I am very sure who the bad guys are, hamas and the houthis, it’s a no brainer.

I doubt if anyone is exactly sure where all the hostages are, if they haven't already been killed in the bombing. Israel made the mistake of assuming that they would all be held in one place,, when actually they had been dispersed. Some were held in private homes. The destruction is such they may now lie with the Palestinian dead under the rubble.

Oreo

There are very few innocents in Yemen or Gaza other than children.
The first thing that should happen in Gaza is that all the Israeli hostages be freed.
I am very sure who the bad guys are, hamas and the houthis, it’s a no brainer.

So you think that every adult in Gaza supports Hamas? Every single one of them.

Yeah, it would be very convenient for hamas to say that!
Hamas knew before the hostages were brought back where they would be held and they knew that the IDF would soon arrive in force.
Oh those poor hamas guys, they would love to give back the hostages if only they knew where some of them were!