Katharine Birbalsingh – the head teacher of Michaela Community School.

Why cant other schools provide the results that this school seems to be achieving. Results that if the info is to be believed are the same if not better than private education.

We could entirely do away with religion, culture or difference of any kind (boring but possible) and people will still find a reason to pick on someone else...

It's important to understand why someone bullies to stop them... Not engage in blaming the victim

It is important to take religion/s out of school time.
All religions must be equal.
The big issue for this school was the pressures including threatening behaviors by some Muslims praying to others that were not praying.

That is going against our freedoms in the UK Freedoms that have evolved over time and make us a good place to be with far more liberal and kindness that many other countries.
This tolerance is not present all over the planet and we must be careful not to let anyone take this away from us.

I don't understand the support for a religion that wants cause repressions.
Far better to ban all religion in schools.
Also the Legal aid to bring this case to court is our money.

Of course bullying should be stamped out in any school.

In this case, I understand that it was teachers and other pupils being racially harassed and bullied by some pupils when a ban had been introduced on prayer rituals.

Prayer rituals have no place in secular schools.

If this is allowed, some of these children are going to have a rude awakening when they join the world of work.
I know what the law states in relation to religious freedom but I know for a fact that some employers aren’t receptive to this law, ie, some wont get to the interview stage.

Every single one of you has the means at your hands to Google how many countries Christianity may be found in

Christianity exists in most countries who are primarily Islamic and populated by a majority of Muslims

If you are saying that Muslims cannot worship in certain circumstances here you must also say that Christians cannot practice in other countries

Or you must realise you should be more tolerant

X post Pinkquartz

Galaxy

Why cant other schools provide the results that this school seems to be achieving. Results that if the info is to be believed are the same if not better than private education.

Well for one thing this is an incredibly small school. According to Gov.UK it has the capacity for 840 but only 704 on role.
Most state secondaries have between 1000 and 2000 pupils. The ability to carefully select your pupils helps as well.

Your arguments hold no water, Violetsky.

Would that be holy water Callistemon?

Glorianny

Galaxy

Why cant other schools provide the results that this school seems to be achieving. Results that if the info is to be believed are the same if not better than private education.

Well for one thing this is an incredibly small school. According to Gov.UK it has the capacity for 840 but only 704 on role.
Most state secondaries have between 1000 and 2000 pupils. The ability to carefully select your pupils helps as well.

Surely you would only be able to select your pupils carefully if your school is good/excellent, parents are eager for their children to attend and it is therefore over-subscribed?

Galaxy

Why cant other schools provide the results that this school seems to be achieving. Results that if the info is to be believed are the same if not better than private education.

It can be done. My granddaughter was expelled from her first secondary school. Thankfully the deputy head knew she had a brilliant brain.
He knew the school she needed to go to, one of the top five in Essex, Ofsted rating, outstanding.
She was interviewed and accepted. They have the same ethics as the Michaela Community school.
It just needs discipline, understanding, and caring.

Easy to say Callistermon but obviously difficult to prove... Or your comment would be longer

Most state secondaries have between 1000 and 2000 pupils
And that s a whole other can of worms.

Many children, especially those coming from small, friendly primary schools, find these huge secondary schools overwhelming and the whole atmosphere quite intimidating.

A room to pray? Come off it, if it is like most schools it would be very short of space. Many schools here have chapels but they are used for a lot of different things, not specifically for prayer and would certainly not be empty at particular times everyday.

The school where my husband taught was a Christian school and parents had to accept its ethos. At lunchtime there was a quiet room where any pupils could go, to pray or simply to be in a safe quiet space. on Fridays it was designated for Muslim prayers.
I am not sure why that sort of provision couldn’t be made here?
It seems to me there is a wider issue of bullying , racism, and behaviour in general to be addressed in this case. I don’t understand why it has attracted Legal Aid.

Callistemon21

Of course bullying should be stamped out in any school.

In this case, I understand that it was teachers and other pupils being racially harassed and bullied by some pupils when a ban had been introduced on prayer rituals.

Prayer rituals have no place in secular schools.

Prayer rituals have no place in secular schools.

If your faith demands that you ritualistically pray, then a secular school is the wrong choice, surely?

Parents must be aware, when they enrol their child, of the culture and ethos of the school?

As for the bullying and threats - and the alleged pressurisation of other Muslim students to (allegedly one student) not sing in the school choir because it is "haram"... and another student wearing a head covering when she had previously not done so being told she was not a good Muslim... this is intimidation.

And when the school refuses to 'bend' it is accused of 'Islamophobia'.

There are of course Muslim schools in the UK but we do not expect people to move their jobs and homes in order to attend Christian schools and unless we are willing to say Christians should not attend secular schools then we should not be saying it about Muslims

Are we willing to say Christians should not attend secular schools?

VioletSky

There are of course Muslim schools in the UK but we do not expect people to move their jobs and homes in order to attend Christian schools and unless we are willing to say Christians should not attend secular schools then we should not be saying it about Muslims

Are we willing to say Christians should not attend secular schools?

Are we willing to say Christians should not attend secular schools?
Of course not! If Christians attend a secular school they must be willing to accept there will be no adherence to Christian rites and no special facilities afforded them. If you attend a secular school then you accept your individual religion will not attract any special exemptions or measures. If you attend a religious school then you accept that the specified religion and its doctrines will be accorded prominence within the establishment. Attend a Muslim school but demand they celebrate Judaism and its practices and see where that gets you.

VioletSky

There are of course Muslim schools in the UK but we do not expect people to move their jobs and homes in order to attend Christian schools and unless we are willing to say Christians should not attend secular schools then we should not be saying it about Muslims

Are we willing to say Christians should not attend secular schools?

I don't think anyone has said Muslims shouldn't attend secular schools have they? If I'm wrong perhaps you could quote the posters who have said this.
The general consensus seems to be if you apply to a strictly secular school do not subsequently demand to have religious observation incorporated into school policy. A bit like joining a vegan organisation but then demanding they serve bacon and eggs at the community brunch!

The children just want a small space to pray, with an expectation that they aren't bullied for doing so

The same way a Christian in a secular school may want to pray before eating, with the expectation they aren't bullied for doing so.

And I work in a secular school, we have assemblies given by a multitude of religions, we learn about a multitude of holidays and the children clearly understand that different people have different holidays and religions and are very interested in learning about and celebrating that fact

Children are amazing and accepting unless a stronger influence closes those doors for them

VioletSky

There are of course Muslim schools in the UK but we do not expect people to move their jobs and homes in order to attend Christian schools and unless we are willing to say Christians should not attend secular schools then we should not be saying it about Muslims

Are we willing to say Christians should not attend secular schools?

If Christians, or any other faiths for that matter, are demanding the school changes its secular rules to accommodate them - then no, they should not attend secular schools.

That is the whole point of secularism. And this particular school is deliberately secular. If you accommodate one - be it Hindu, Jewish, Christian, whatever, then the whole ethos is lost, because others will (rightly) demand the same consideration.

No one religion should have precedence over another - regardless of which religion it is. As Katharine Birbalsingh said, “multiculturalism can only succeed” when every group makes sacrifices “for the sake of the whole”.

And this ban was introduced against a backdrop of intimidation and violence and racial harassment of teachers.

As an atheist, I chose a school for my son which still indulged in the (now) somewhat archaic ritual of daily worship. I didn't demand that he be excused from this ritual - it was my choice to enrol him because it was a school with an excellent academic reputation. You can't have it all your own way.

Freedom of religion and belief is protected under the equality act... For everyone. Would you like that protection taken away so that one school can be a Muslim prayer free zone?

Besides, A Muslim praying in a small room for a small part of the day does not detract from the school, it enhances it because it is literally putting into practice what schools should be teaching and the British Values of Individual Liberty, Tolerance and Respect are a huge part of education...

Why should Muslims be exempt from that and unable to attend any school when a Christian has the freedom to do so?

You are simply picking and choosing who deserves to have the rules and laws of a while country apply to them

What are you basing that on exactly?

This headteacher will be asked the same questions in court

VioletSky

Freedom of religion and belief is protected under the equality act... For everyone. Would you like that protection taken away so that one school can be a Muslim prayer free zone?

Besides, A Muslim praying in a small room for a small part of the day does not detract from the school, it enhances it because it is literally putting into practice what schools should be teaching and the British Values of Individual Liberty, Tolerance and Respect are a huge part of education...

Why should Muslims be exempt from that and unable to attend any school when a Christian has the freedom to do so?

You are simply picking and choosing who deserves to have the rules and laws of a while country apply to them

What are you basing that on exactly?

This headteacher will be asked the same questions in court

You are simply picking and choosing who deserves to have the rules and laws of a while country apply to them

I am doing nothing of the kind.

I am suggesting that all religions adhere to the tenets of the secular rules. Rules that I am sure were made clear in the school brochures, and upon enrolment. Rules that apply to all students from whichever religion they adhere to. It is you, you who is suggesting the discrimination is based on disfavour of Muslims.

Most schools have rules, and they apply equally to all students. But you appear to believe that they shouldn't apply to Muslims in this instance.

There is no "small room" set aside for anyone of any religion because the school is secular. Once you establish a "small room" - which would, presumably, have to be monitored, each religion would demand its use of the room during the school day, and the whole point of secularism would be lost. It is either / or... either the school is secular or it isn't. I don't know why you don't understand that and why you are fixated on Muslims. It matters not which religion is making demands, it is the fact of those demands.

I think you misunderstand what secular actually means in education...