Will Israel comply to the ICJ ruling?

IRA not the IRS

lorianny

Of course had Israel not driven Palestinians from their homes and blockaded Gaza, controlling every aspect of life, so there was no possibility of it ever becoming self sufficient, never mind prosperous, there would have been no need for aid or UNWRA.

If people in the UK think the UN is useless imagine how someone growing up in Gaza must feel. A third or fourth generation refugee dependant on aid, seeing UN resolutions ignored time and time again by Israel. And that is why Hamas can recruit and will continue to do so.

Bang on, sadly

Efs1

Jaberwok
Russia also committing war crimes by their illegal unprovoked attack on Ukraine, but international organisations aren't too bothered about that, only the hated Israel. No one else ever seems to incur any wrath with anyone at all, no matter how many laws they break or how heinous their crimes to humanity no one cares.
You’re right Jaberwok, always Israel I wonder why?

Many many of us DO care about Ukraine and Afganistan and the many other countries currently at war, It’s just too easy to blame everyone and accuse them of “hating” Israel

This situation will never be resolved,sadly! It's as old as time itself

If Israelites had not been driven from their lands for time immemorial then there would be no war! I was told when younger still at school by a History teacher to read my Bible as a History book! There was even then much hatred of Jews & I cannot understand why! Maybe if so many Arab states did not want to exterminate all Jews then there would be no need for Israel to be so defensive! If for so many centuries the Israelites were not treated as lesser beings this war, again, would not have happened! Why do so many want to see an end to Israel & feel so sorry for the Palestinians? Sometimes I feel as if I am the only one who supports Israel! Waiting for all the replies telling me how wrong I am so I am off to make a cup of tea & try to forget the carnage in this world for 10minutes!

It is genocide. Israel has had the intention of wiping out the Palestinian people my whole lifetime. They have been killing and landgrabbing from the Palestinians with the complicity of the US and UK ……and it continues. Israel is never accountable for the death and destruction it wreaks.

I don't think Isreal will even give the ruling a moment thought and just carry on as they are now 😢
Most of the world calls Hamas terrorists but one person terrorist is another person's freedom fighter. But either way, the bombing of civilians should cease now not a month. They will only lie and say Hamas was amongst the civilians to justify their actions!

brummie

It is genocide. Israel has had the intention of wiping out the Palestinian people my whole lifetime. They have been killing and landgrabbing from the Palestinians with the complicity of the US and UK ……and it continues. Israel is never accountable for the death and destruction it wreaks.

Oh for goodness sakes. Siding with Hamas who since the inception of Israel, have vowed to wipe it off the map. Funny how choosy people are when it comes to war,any tears for those civilians killed in Ukraine,the children,the mothers. Hypocrites. Remember those civilians killed in other wars, ours too, guess not.

PenJK’s husband here.
Whitewave, I suggest you study the history of the Israel - Palestinian situation.
It has seen wars launched against Israel, all started by the Arabs, in 1948, 1967 and 1973, all aimed at driving the Jews into the sea. Israel won all these wars.

Land occupied in these wars would have been the subject of peace negotiations, all of which have failed when the leaders of the Palestinians refused to make peace. They have always wanted a one state solution without Jews in it. This is why land won, particularly that won by Israel in 1967, is under occupation.

That does not excuse the settlement policy of this Israeli government and the behaviour of some settlers against neighbouring Palestinians. This will change when there is a change of government in democratic Israel.

In between the wars against Israel, Palestinian terrorist groups have committed murderous attacks within Israel and have launched two ‘intifadas’.

Hamas has a charter describing its main aim as the destruction of Israel and murdering all Jews and the heinous attack of October 7th and their threat to repeat that attack over and over and over again tells you much of what we need to know about Hamas. Hiding and fighting deeply within the civilian population of Gaza adds to the knowledge of the terrible terrorist group, Hamas.

Some people argue that Israel’s response to the frenzied rapes, mutilation, murders and abductions of some 1400 people is disproportionate, but they fail to offer their ideas of what would be a proportionate response in the light of October 7th and the Hamas threats to repeat and repeat it. Realistically, Israel had little choice if it had to neutralise Hamas as a terrorist machine. The terrible casualties are the responsibility of Hamas, whose tunnels, rocket launch sites and ammunition stores are in and under the schools, hospitals and homes of Gaza.

Today, it is so difficult to see how there will ever be peace, but we have to hope that new leaders on both sides emerge at the same time, who are able and willing to make a peace that had it happened 75 years ago would have enabled the Palestinians to live in a prosperous and successful country.

👏👏👏👏👏👏👏

PenJK50’s husband totally agree 👏👏👏

Pen jks husband needs to study the history of Israel and the Zionist movement.

Sillynanny I don’t think everyone wants to see the end of Israel. However Israel certainly wants to see an end to Palestine.
Israel has always had much of the western worlds unquestioning support, but risk alienating themselves now unless they rein in their complete destruction of Palestine and the killing of so many civilians. Though I think even that won’t bother them too much as long as their best friend stays with them. Given so many politically active Jews live and vote in America I can’t see the relationship changing,
Whilst I understand the reason Israel want a land of their own they came somewhere which already had a long-standing Palestinian population.
The UK which had a mandate to keep the peace left Palestine to itself after Jewish gangs bombed and killed many British military.
Israel will go its own way until it reaches its goal at the cost of the indigenous population.

And the reason you don’t think that I have studied the history of the territory of Palestine and Israel? Is it because my opinion doesn’t match your own? If so that is not particularly polite, but I can easily live with it as my understanding of the history of the territory does not exactly match your own.

I won’t answer your post point for point as we have gone over this time and again on GN, but what I will say is that it I absolutely stand by my opinion that the only way to reach a lasting peace is a two state solution with the Palestinians given full sovereignty over their state which includes ensuring that Israel no longer controls Gazas sea and air space and can no longer control Palestinian movement of goods and people. It goes without saying that the settlers must give up their illegal land grabs and return to their own country.

Israel has a complete right to defend itself, of course it does, and I would be the last to deny its right to exist, but I reiterate it must be done proportionately. The death toll is enormous, on top of which they cut off water, fuel and aid, and through their efforts they are ensuring that the UN Palestinian aid group is being trashed.

Israel is so unfortunate to have a far right government embodied in Netanyahu but I have faith that the Israelites will see him off asap, and then providing Trump isn’t in power the way forward should be a lot easier than now. But the world must be prepared to support Israel in the two state solution as being surrounded largely by hostile countries is not easy. That is where the UNs roll as peacekeeper should step in, but as we have commented we will not hold our breath over that!

PenJK50

PenJK’s husband here.
Whitewave, I suggest you study the history of the Israel - Palestinian situation.
It has seen wars launched against Israel, all started by the Arabs, in 1948, 1967 and 1973, all aimed at driving the Jews into the sea. Israel won all these wars.

Land occupied in these wars would have been the subject of peace negotiations, all of which have failed when the leaders of the Palestinians refused to make peace. They have always wanted a one state solution without Jews in it. This is why land won, particularly that won by Israel in 1967, is under occupation.

That does not excuse the settlement policy of this Israeli government and the behaviour of some settlers against neighbouring Palestinians. This will change when there is a change of government in democratic Israel.

In between the wars against Israel, Palestinian terrorist groups have committed murderous attacks within Israel and have launched two ‘intifadas’.

Hamas has a charter describing its main aim as the destruction of Israel and murdering all Jews and the heinous attack of October 7th and their threat to repeat that attack over and over and over again tells you much of what we need to know about Hamas. Hiding and fighting deeply within the civilian population of Gaza adds to the knowledge of the terrible terrorist group, Hamas.

Some people argue that Israel’s response to the frenzied rapes, mutilation, murders and abductions of some 1400 people is disproportionate, but they fail to offer their ideas of what would be a proportionate response in the light of October 7th and the Hamas threats to repeat and repeat it. Realistically, Israel had little choice if it had to neutralise Hamas as a terrorist machine. The terrible casualties are the responsibility of Hamas, whose tunnels, rocket launch sites and ammunition stores are in and under the schools, hospitals and homes of Gaza.

Today, it is so difficult to see how there will ever be peace, but we have to hope that new leaders on both sides emerge at the same time, who are able and willing to make a peace that had it happened 75 years ago would have enabled the Palestinians to live in a prosperous and successful country.

I have seldom seen such a distortion of history. I wonder if you were educated in Israel. I know the Nakba isn't taught there because it gives the true basis of the history of the country.
But here's some accurate information. When the country of Israel was first established it was done by terrorism. Which fair enough we can forgive. However in 1948 the Israelis ejected Palestinians from land they had occupied for generations. The massacres, looting, and rapes which took place are internationally acknowledged The massacre and expulsion of Palestinian Arabs and destruction of villages began in December,[45] including massacres at Al-Khisas (18 December 1947),[46] and Balad al-Shaykh (31 December).[47] By March, between 70,000 and 100,000 Palestinians, mostly middle- and upper-class urban elites, were expelled or fled
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakba#:~:text=The%20central%20facts%20of%20the,

The people now in Gaza are third and fourth generation refugees whose families were dispossessed by that action.

After the 1967 Israel occupied territories and began settling in them. Substantial efforts have been made to make Israel withdraw from these territories but they have never complied with any ruling.
The Occupied Territories and Gaza are regarded by most organisations as still being under occupation by Israel
The United Nations, Human Rights Watch and many other international bodies and NGOs continues to consider Israel to be the occupying power of the Gaza Strip as Israel controls the Gaza Strip's airspace and territorial waters as well as the movement of people or goods in or out of Gaza by air or sea

It is against International law for a country to continue to occupy territory it has gained in war.
The UN ruled Israel should return to the 1967 borders.
If your country is invaded and occupied are you entitled to fight back?
Israel has always refused to accept a two state solution
news.un.org/en/story/2024/01/1145807#:~:text=Israel's%20%E2%80%9Cclear%20and%20repeated%20rejection,
Israel’s “clear and repeated rejection” of the two-State solution “is unacceptable”, said UN Secretary-General António Guterres, adding that “this refusal, and the denial of the right to statehood to the Palestinian people, would indefinitely prolong a conflict that has become a major threat to global peace and security.

PenJK50 s husband.

I would however like to commend your sojourn into GN. Why not join, we always seem short of the male opinion. Although……😀😀😀

A précis of The Wall Street Journals front page.

Glorianny have just read both of your attachments and wish everyone on this thread would take the time to read them.
It might give more nuance to the debate.

Thank you GrannyGravy the only 12 didn’t ring true

GrannyGravy13

A précis of The Wall Street Journals front page.

I have no doubt that much like the IRA, Sinn Fein and the RC population of N. Ireland the family connections and the ties between Hamas the terrorist organisation, Hamas the political organisation and the population of Gaza are many.
However we should remember that the existence of UNWR it's presence in Gaza, all the terrorist activity and the inabiltiy to reach a two state solution stems from two things Israel's refusal to withdraw to the 1967 boundaries, or to agree to a two state solution.
And whatever the problems with UNWR they have fed and cared for a massive population of dispossessed people. It must be difficult to work amongst an occupied and oppressed people and not to feel you should in some way be acting to help them. Especially when the situation drags on one generation after another.

Thank you GrannyGravy

That report doesn't worry you one jot, then Glorianny? You are justifying their actions by saying they are the fault of Israel and that they did some charity work?

GrannyGravy13

A précis of The Wall Street Journals front page.

Thank you GrannyGravy.
Very sad, but not at all surprising. In fact I would have been surprised if the figure of twelve was correct. It has been reported many times that many Palestinians support, or are part of Hamas, so I repeat, not at all surprising.

Callistemon21

Thank you GrannyGravy

That report doesn't worry you one jot, then Glorianny? You are justifying their actions by saying they are the fault of Israel and that they did some charity work?

Yes Callistemon, the actions of Hamas are being justified, and Israel is apparently to blame. Why am I not surprised? This blatant antisemitism is part of the problem. The Israelis have nowhere to go, which is why they returned to their homeland after the holocaust, determined to give the Jews a safe place to live. There were already Jews living there, some never left despite the efforts of the Arabs to displace them and drive them out.

maddyone it’s antisemitism disguised as antizionism

Apologies, unfortunately I do not have time to find each poster and my comments are rather random but each is in response to one written here.

I do feel that many posters here feel that this conflict is very simple: Hamas-good, Israel-bad.

Yes, poor Palestine has taken an almighty pounding but why? This is because Hamas has its fighters, command centres, rocket launchers etc., etc., embedded in residential buildings. They have gambled that if their people die in large numbers, they will only gain sympathy from the world. True.

In most counties, warfare is committed from army bases never in the middle of a huge conglomeration of people but the bigoted do not care. No matter how many times this point is brought up it is ignored here. Hamas knew exactly what they were doing and people here have swallowed it all - nasty Israel taking out rocket-launchers in the building over there... Sorry, but it is hard to swallow the ridiculous notion of people complaining that Israel has bombed Gaza to the ground when it has used targeted strikes. Yes, those strikes were in residential districts but please, tell me what Israel was supposed to do as the rockets rained down?

Israel has take steps to try to minimise destruction but in such a built-up area it has been difficult. Israel could not leave standing any building that contained a method/capability to fire at it. Israel has, by way of drones, a capability to check who is around a building to be struck. It is not, of course, perfect but it is the best it could do, fighting against people who do not care about their own population. Please look closely at the footage on TV, Gaza is not by all means a complete bomb site. Yes, of course there is terrible destruction (see paragraph above) but many buildings are standing. It just does not make good news.

Yes, Israel does control food, water and power in Gaza. Why? It is beyond me that some people do not think why. It is because Hamas, as governors of Gaza have not had or have been working to, the capability to provide for their own people. Without Israel, Gazans would starve.

I agree that President Netanyahu is difficult but many many Israelis do not support him. Unfortunately, right now, Israel needs a strong leader.

Has anyone thought that Gaza should have the backing and support of many nearby extremely wealthy Arab countries but ... these have not been forthcoming in terms of aid of any description. All very quiet. Why? Ideas?

Why have the Egyptians not helped? Why is their Rafah crossing closed? No poster every answers my queries.

The person who thought that Israel did not provide aid to Gaza is wrong. I have previously listed last Sunday's total of aid: from Israel to Gaza. I have heard that it is the Hamas soldiers who control what the people actually receive and are unmoved by the starving. Aid has come in to Gaza but needs distributing. Do many countries offer aid to an enemy in the middle of a war which they did not begin?

There were talks at the weekend in Paris between the US, Israel, Qatar and Egypt and were described as 'constructive'. Further talks will resume later this week.

The issue of hostage/prisoner swap was discussed. Previously Hamas wanted 3 prisoners released for every child or female hostage, however that has now changed to a demand for 200-300 prisoners for every female hostage. During the last swap, Hamas had many convicted murderers released. Nice.

Have you considered that Israel is actually also fighting for you and me? Alongside, with Hamas, are Islamic Jihad. They do not like our democratic values or our Western lifestyle.....