Boy, 4y, allowed to join CoE school as a girl.

Callistemon21

eazybee

The worst thing about this is the lying.
Staff were sworn to secrecy, including one whose daughter was in the same class as this boy, and was very disturbed when, aged seven, he started flashing his penis in the cloakroom and threatened something terrible would happen to them if they 'told.'
Plus the fact the child is registered as a girl in the school register, a legal document.

he started flashing his penis in the cloakroom and threatened something terrible would happen to them if they 'told.'

He sounds like a very disturbed little boy.
Sad, but if he doesn't get help what could he be like when he's older?

He does sound like a disturbed little boy. But it seems very odd that these accusations have only come out at age 7. I hope the school have a good support team and it has already spun into action. Unfortunately knowing the state of Cahms I'm very much afraid he'll be at the end of a long waiting list and if he is transgender an even longer one for that.

Disgusting. Schools should not have to put up with all this crap that's going on in the world today.

Yes, our services are in dire straits ☹

You may have seen it Glorianni but at four, children say things, the child was enabled, a swift no and a age appropriate explanation of a different anatomy would have been my way of dealing with it.
I am sick of the idea that at 4 years old the child is dictating to the parents, if it were my child at four they would be told they are a boy and sent to school in appropriate uniform
I would also add years ago a friend's girl wanted to be a boy because she saw that her brother could stand when using the loo. It was something Mother and Iwere amused about.
I don't think any poster should tell people they cannot comment.

When my daughter was five her teacher told me that my daughter was refusing to answer to her name at registration, insisting instead that her name was Rosie. This continued for a very long time, but at no stage did we or the teacher decide that my daughter’s name could be changed to suit her fancy. Eventually of course my daughter gave up the charade and began answering to her own name again. (She loves her name by the way.)

There are transsexual people who have body dysmorphia and live as the opposite sex and I understand that. However, they are adults and have usually received psychiatric help. A child who believes, (yes, truly believes) they are fat, when in fact they are not, is recognised as having a psychiatric problem and is NEVER affirmed as being fat. Why would a child who erroneously believes they are of the opposite sex not be treated similarly?

The child is 4

Ensure safeguarding is in place

Leave them alone

Blimey

Yes watchful waiting. Not social affirmation.
And not sexist stereotypes from the 1930,s about looking or dressing like a boy.

Smileless2012

Genuine question. How does a 2 year old know what it means to be a boy or a girl and that if they're a girl, they're really a boy?

They don’t. Many will prattle on about gender awareness, but since a two year old has insufficient experience to know what being one or the other involves. Without training from an adult they will be unlikely to use the words I am a boy or I am a girl, but there is an increasing number of people who would be willing to do that to prove their point.
On X there is a man who is identifying as a preschool girl and wants to sue the authorities for discrimination, transphobia etc.
I suppose if you believe the child you would believe the adult.

On X there is a man who is identifying as a preschool girl and wants to sue the authorities for discrimination, transphobia etc.

I feel sympathy for people who really feel they are trapped in the wrong body, but that man is taking the proverbial!

Where is the line to be drawn?
What about children who identify as a furry? Should they be told they are not allowed in school because schools are for human children?

If I identify as a five year old boy can I go outside and kick my football all day long while someone else does the washing, cooking, cleaning ......

The worst thing about this is the lying. Staff were sworn to secrecy, including one whose daughter was in the same class as this boy

Totally agree eazybee. It’s enabling behaviour at the very least. It stinks quite frankly.

This boy is now 7y along with his little classmates. The girls are bewildered and upset. Confused. The parents furious at the duplicity.

The truth was bound to emerge at some stage. What on earth were the school going to say/do then??

babies are not born as baby Conservatives, or baby liberals, or baby Roman Catholics, or baby skirt wearers, or baby angels, or baby boys.

We aim to stop foisting any traditional gender attribute on children and grown ups. "Traditional gender attributes" includes the child 's identifying as a fixed gender.
If the child insists they are a girl or a boy this is a sign that they have already been indoctrinated with gender consciousness.

How was he supposed to hide his gender in a group of 4 yr olds?
Small children are very interested in their bodies.
My DGD added 3, followed me into the loo, and asked me if i had a long bottom.
Curious I asked her what that was and did she have one? No not me, she laughed, a long bottom like daddy and Angus. I twigged eventually.

Archbishop Wokeby:

“ “Consequently schools can make adjustments to meet the needs of a trans pupil without being accused of discriminating against non-trans pupils.”

The other kids did not matter then?

Many are too scared to opine otherwise. Stonewall has much to answer for. Insidious creep-ology into our establishments.

babies are not born as baby Conservatives, or baby liberals, or baby Roman Catholics, or baby skirt wearers, or baby angels,

No, they're not.

or baby boys
Yes, probably about 51% are
A boy is a young male human.

There is much disagreement about what percentage of people are born with intersex but it is probably less than 1%.

The child is 4

was 4. Now 7.

Grammaretto wrote:
"How was he supposed to hide his gender in a group of 4 yr olds?
Small children are very interested in their bodies.
My DGD added 3, followed me into the loo, and asked me if i had a long bottom.
Curious I asked her what that was and did she have one? No not me, she laughed, a long bottom like daddy and Angus. I twigged eventually."

G. you confuse primary sexual organ with gender. The former is anatomical but the latter is cultural belief.

The child is a boy. He was entered in the school as a girl which he clearly wasn't; a birth certificate must be produced and verified; he may have a dual sex name: Georgie, Jordan etc but he will be in either the boys or the girls list. The school was lying from the beginning, and some staff were colluding, willingly or unwillingly.
It was drummed into me that school registers were legal documents and children's names could not be altered; at one time mothers would try and change the child's name to their maiden name or that of the new partner. Boys are entered in one column, girls in another, despite efforts by feminist teachers to enter girls first, or mix them in alphabetical order.

Callistemon wrote: in reply to me

"babies are not born as baby Conservatives, or baby liberals, or baby Roman Catholics, or baby skirt wearers, or baby angels,

No, they're not.

or baby boys
Yes, probably about 51% are
A boy is a young male human.

There is much disagreement about what percentage of people are born with intersex but it is probably less than 1%."

'A baby boy ' means either he has a penis , or alternatively it means the baby human being is stereotyped by others into gendered expectations about their clothing, physique, and behaviour.
Gender stereotyping is similar to racial stereotyping.

Caleo

babies are not born as baby Conservatives, or baby liberals, or baby Roman Catholics, or baby skirt wearers, or baby angels, or baby boys.

We aim to stop foisting any traditional gender attribute on children and grown ups. "Traditional gender attributes" includes the child 's identifying as a fixed gender.
If the child insists they are a girl or a boy this is a sign that they have already been indoctrinated with gender consciousness.

I agree with this. What on earth has a two year old seen that suggests that the sexes are so stereotyped that it is possible to be 'the wrong one'? Toddlers are just that - toddlers. Yes, some parents dress some in pink and others in blue, or give dolls to girls and trains to boys, but it takes time for the implications of that to be noticed by children. How many of us have heard children say things like 'when I am a boy', or 'when I was a girl' on the assumption that because an older or younger sibling is a different sex it must be something that changes over time? My nephew asked about when he was a monkey at one point, when they'd been talking about evolution at school.

Gender is not a concrete 'thing'. It is a conceptual term that describes behaviour that in a particular time and place is considered to be appropriate to one or other of the sexes.

Quite apart from the likely psychological trauma to this child in particular, what consideration has been given to that of the other children? It is so important that we learn to trust our own judgement and instincts, and that skill is learnt gradually as we grow. Until it is fully developed, children rely on adults to see them safe and help them to understand the world for themselves. If the classmates of the child in question thought he was a girl then found that not only were they wrong, but that the adults responsible for them at school were lying to them, how can they trust their instincts in future, or trust that 'responsible' adults are sound in their judgement?

I can see no reason not to have the same uniforms for boys and girls - girls' ones are often traditional male clothing with trousers substituted for skirts anyway. A sweatshirt and joggers seem to me perfectly suitable for primary children of either sex, and at that age there should be very few occasions when they are segregated anyway. Before puberty, PE is often taught in whole-class groups, I believe, and other subjects are not taught in male/female classes, AFAIK.

I wouldn't pretend the boy was a girl, but would reassure him that it didn't matter. I would also ask him what he means when he says he is a girl. How does he know? What is the difference? Blind acceptance of what are vague and complex 'feelings' won't do him any favours that I can think of. Getting him to verbalise his feelings might.

Caleo

Grammaretto wrote:
"How was he supposed to hide his gender in a group of 4 yr olds?
Small children are very interested in their bodies.
My DGD added 3, followed me into the loo, and asked me if i had a long bottom.
Curious I asked her what that was and did she have one? No not me, she laughed, a long bottom like daddy and Angus. I twigged eventually."

G. you confuse primary sexual organ with gender. The former is anatomical but the latter is cultural belief.

Well, reportedly he's been waving his primary sex organ around in the cloakroom, threatening the girls and upsetting them.

He doesn't sound much like a girl to me.

Doodledog good post.

I agree with your last paragraph 100% it was what I was trying to say in one of my earlier posts, you have explained it perfectly.

Caleo

Callistemon wrote: in reply to me

"babies are not born as baby Conservatives, or baby liberals, or baby Roman Catholics, or baby skirt wearers, or baby angels,

No, they're not.

or baby boys
Yes, probably about 51% are
A boy is a young male human.

There is much disagreement about what percentage of people are born with intersex but it is probably less than 1%."

'A baby boy ' means either he has a penis , or alternatively it means the baby human being is stereotyped by others into gendered expectations about their clothing, physique, and behaviour.
Gender stereotyping is similar to racial stereotyping.

Caleo gender stereotyping is nothing like racial stereotyping.

Humans along with most living things on the planet are either male or female, it’s how they procreate, reproduce…

Callistemon21 he doesn’t sound much like a girl to me either.

But what do I know, I’ve only had five children all of which were identified as either boy or girl at their birth…

Calistemon, he sounds like a naughty boy, and the little girls sound like wimps.

Your chosen gender is not necessarily your anatomical sex. It may be and again it may not be.

I really don't think it is as simple as some seem to think. I knew the child between 18 months and 2 years. She was part of my DIL's mum's friendship group. We went to a messy activity where the children were washed afterwards in washing up bowls side by side. So she had seen boys and girls. Saw him only once since then when he was about 6 he was in a group of children learning street dance. He did look like a boy.

I do wonder what a school is supposed to do if a child is enrolled and parents ask that the sex be kept secret. After all if it was some other condition and the parents said it was confidential the school would comply.