Azar Ali

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Listening to review of tomorrow’s papers, antisemitism in this country is rising to frightening heights.

I’ve just seen that too Annie.

Callistemon21

growstuff

Ironically, Louise Ellwood partly supported Khan, saying that he had always supported her when she received anti-semitic abuse.

Sorry, I meant Ali.

🤔 I'm not sure I followed any of this.

Did a Rochdale Councillor come out in support of an MP's wife when she received anti-Semitic abuse? Do they know each other?

Do you have a link, please.

These were Louise Ellman's own tweets. Admittedly, they were before the "additional" information was reported.

For those who don't know, Ellman is Jewish and a Labour peer. She left the Labour Party when Corbyn was leader.

PS. I meant Ellman in my previous post. I've been having a "bad name" day.

But the deaths of adults are reported too.

Anniebach

Dickens yes children are being killed, I really don’t understand why their parents are never spoken of, where does these deaths leave children in poverty?

How can you say that "their parents are never spoken of"?

We - and the rest of the world that is watching the events unfold keep talking about the men, women and children - civilians - who are being killed... and those who were slaughtered on 7th October by Hamas - not to mention the hostages who are still being held.

You seem to be saying that because people are shocked at the number of children killed and injured that it must mean we don't care about the adults?

Callistemon21

Anniebach

Protesters at Tobias Ellwood’s still

I'm am surprised the police are doing nothing.

Do they not remember Ian Gow, Jo Cox, Sir David Amess and others?

I read that the police had surrounded his residence and blocked the entrance with their vehicles - and he was grateful for that, having been warned by the force to stay away ???

Perhaps protestors should not be allowed anywhere near MP's properties because it's intimidation?

If protests outside abortion clinics can be prevented for that reason - intimidation of people going about their legitimate business - then the same rule should apply to the homes of MPs?

James Cleverly, the home secretary, said the rise in anti-Jewish hatred and abuse was “utterly deplorable”, and Yvette Cooper, his Labour counterpart, said it was a “stain on our society”.

The CST said Hamas’s attack on Israel on 7 October was a “trigger event [that] had a seismic effect on antisemitic incident levels in the UK … and the impact was instant”.

It received the first report of antisemitism at 12.55pm on 7 October after Hamas’s attack. A vehicle with a Palestinian flag attached, and with the occupant shaking their fist in the air through an open window, had driven past a synagogue in Hertfordshire. Thirty-one incidents were reported on that day.

The number rose over the following days, reaching a peak of 80 on 11 October – the highest incident total for any single day recorded by the CST.

The CST pointed out that there had been previous spikes in antisemitism during and after conflicts in Gaza in 2021, 2014 and 2009.

It said: “There is one key difference this time: antisemitic incidents skyrocketed in the immediate aftermath of a terror attack responsible for the highest Jewish death toll on any day since the Holocaust, before Israel had coordinated any substantive military response.” James Cleverly, the home secretary, said the rise in anti-Jewish hatred and abuse was “utterly deplorable”, and Yvette Cooper, his Labour counterpart, said it was a “stain on our society”.

The CST said Hamas’s attack on Israel on 7 October was a “trigger event [that] had a seismic effect on antisemitic incident levels in the UK … and the impact was instant”.

It received the first report of antisemitism at 12.55pm on 7 October after Hamas’s attack. A vehicle with a Palestinian flag attached, and with the occupant shaking their fist in the air through an open window, had driven past a synagogue in Hertfordshire. Thirty-one incidents were reported on that day.

The number rose over the following days, reaching a peak of 80 on 11 October – the highest incident total for any single day recorded by the CST.

It said: “There is one key difference this time: antisemitic incidents skyrocketed in the immediate aftermath of a terror attack responsible for the highest Jewish death toll on any day since the Holocaust, before Israel had coordinated any substantive military response.” James Cleverly, the home secretary, said the rise in anti-Jewish hatred and abuse was “utterly deplorable”, and Yvette Cooper, his Labour counterpart, said it was a “stain on our society”.

The CST said Hamas’s attack on Israel on 7 October was a “trigger event [that] had a seismic effect on antisemitic incident levels in the UK … and the impact was instant”.

It received the first report of antisemitism at 12.55pm on 7 October after Hamas’s attack. A vehicle with a Palestinian flag attached, and with the occupant shaking their fist in the air through an open window, had driven past a synagogue in Hertfordshire. Thirty-one incidents were reported on that day.

The number rose over the following days, reaching a peak of 80 on 11 October – the highest incident total for any single day recorded by the CST.

The CST pointed out that there had been previous spikes in antisemitism during and after conflicts in Gaza in 2021, 2014 and 2009.

It said: “There is one key difference this time: antisemitic incidents skyrocketed in the immediate aftermath of a terror attack responsible for the highest Jewish death toll on any day since the Holocaust, before Israel had coordinated any substantive military response.”

So sorry too large area

As those antisemitic attacks rose so much before Israel had formulated any response to the attack by Hamas in 7/10, it clearly shows an unacceptable level of antisemitism in the UK. I fail to understand why, at that early point, there should have been a single antisemitic incident on 7/10 except that the Jews are a universally despised race/religion by some people, no, by many people. There is a clash of religion/culture within certain groups, and simply by casual observation (via news programmes) I have noted that much antisemitism comes from certain other groups, but I hasten to add, this is not universal.
To be honest, I fail to understand antisemitism. I don’t understand it, and I’ll never understand it. It is beyond my comprehension or understanding.

maddyone

As those antisemitic attacks rose so much before Israel had formulated any response to the attack by Hamas in 7/10, it clearly shows an unacceptable level of antisemitism in the UK. I fail to understand why, at that early point, there should have been a single antisemitic incident on 7/10 except that the Jews are a universally despised race/religion by some people, no, by many people. There is a clash of religion/culture within certain groups, and simply by casual observation (via news programmes) I have noted that much antisemitism comes from certain other groups, but I hasten to add, this is not universal.
To be honest, I fail to understand antisemitism. I don’t understand it, and I’ll never understand it. It is beyond my comprehension or understanding.

I've had similar discussions, and came to the (wrong) conclusion that it rested basically on ignorance and lack of education. But, that's not the case is it? Would that it were because if we had the cause we'd potentially have the answer.

I consulted wiki for an overall expose on the matter and it broke it down into 6 phases.

1. Pre-Christian anti-Judaism.
2. Christian antisemitism.
3. Muslim antisemitism.
4. Political, social and economic antisemitism.
5. Racial antisemitism.
... and...
6. Contemporary antisemitism.

It's complex, isn't it? Because it's not all flag-waving, fist-pumping thugs driving around north London.

I'm beginning to think that the world has always been a basket-case.
If you then look at wiki's "List of Genocides" (genocide as defined by the 1948 UN Convention on Genocide) starting from the year 1209, there's good reason to believe that humanity is doomed to destroy itself.

The Holocaust was the largest genocide in the world.

The most comprehensive record of anti semitism I’ve seen is at the Jewish Museum in Berlin. The Jews have been persecuted as long as records exist.
The myths about them controlling money and the media persist

Seeing as this discussion has wandered from the Labour candidate himself, I will add that last month in Amsterdam was a real eye opener about how antisemitism takes hold so quickly. We visited the Resistance museums, Jewish museums and of course, Anne Frank's House. The whole emphasis was on how this hatred should never be allowed to happen again.
The next minute we learnt that Amsterdam has witnessed a huge rise in crimes againt Jews since the October massacre in Israel. They said it happens now on a daily basis, like mezuzahs torn off doors and swastikas sprayed on windows. Apparently Dutch Jews no longer want their Jewish magazine delivered in plastic wallets because they need to hide the fact they are Jewish. It's like going back 80 years.

Iam64

The most comprehensive record of anti semitism I’ve seen is at the Jewish Museum in Berlin. The Jews have been persecuted as long as records exist.
The myths about them controlling money and the media persist

Here's a good article that puts those myths into perspective...

"A look at the history and culture of Judaism is enough to demystify the stereotype that being Jewish = being rich."
by Daniel Lapedus (who is Jewish, and isn't rich)

Well worth reading.

www.ecnmy.org/engage/people-think-jews-successful/

growstuff

PS. I meant Ellman in my previous post. I've been having a "bad name" day.

Fair enough!

I was confused 🙂

Joseann

Seeing as this discussion has wandered from the Labour candidate himself, I will add that last month in Amsterdam was a real eye opener about how antisemitism takes hold so quickly. We visited the Resistance museums, Jewish museums and of course, Anne Frank's House. The whole emphasis was on how this hatred should never be allowed to happen again.
The next minute we learnt that Amsterdam has witnessed a huge rise in crimes againt Jews since the October massacre in Israel. They said it happens now on a daily basis, like mezuzahs torn off doors and swastikas sprayed on windows. Apparently Dutch Jews no longer want their Jewish magazine delivered in plastic wallets because they need to hide the fact they are Jewish. It's like going back 80 years.

The next minute we learnt that Amsterdam has witnessed a huge rise in crimes againt Jews since the October massacre in Israel. They said it happens now on a daily basis, like mezuzahs torn off doors and swastikas sprayed on windows. Apparently Dutch Jews no longer want their Jewish magazine delivered in plastic wallets because they need to hide the fact they are Jewish. It's like going back 80 years.

That is truly alarming.

"Never again", eh?

Lily Ebert was asked if the Holocaust could happen again, her
reply - Open Your Eyes

Thanks for the article Dickens.
North Manchester is where Jewish people settled and there’s a large Jewish community there. One of my friends there had a family member murdered on 7 October. He’s a loveky calm individual but he said - it feels like the holocaust
Many Jewish people talk about going to Israel to get away from the rising anti semitisn

Dickens

Callistemon21

Anniebach

Protesters at Tobias Ellwood’s still

I'm am surprised the police are doing nothing.

Do they not remember Ian Gow, Jo Cox, Sir David Amess and others?

I read that the police had surrounded his residence and blocked the entrance with their vehicles - and he was grateful for that, having been warned by the force to stay away ???

Perhaps protestors should not be allowed anywhere near MP's properties because it's intimidation?

If protests outside abortion clinics can be prevented for that reason - intimidation of people going about their legitimate business - then the same rule should apply to the homes of MPs?

I read that the police had surrounded his residence and blocked the entrance with their vehicles - and he was grateful for that, having been warned by the force to stay away ???

I understood he was in the house with his children.

I deplore any racism whatsoever, no matter who is the target. However I note that there are posts on GN about Muslims which had they been about Jews would certainly have been removed.

There are actions which this country could take to wipe out the basis of any antisemitic views which are being spread today. One would be for MPs to vote for an immediate ceasefire in Gaza and for the bombing to stop. The second would be for the UK to stop supplying arms to Israel until Gaza becomes a free and open country.

Until we show that we are absolutely and completely on the side of human rights the concept that there is some sort of conspiracy going on will remain. There will always be people who will believe that and some will act on it. Condemning the actions of Israel and supporting the Palestinian people would benefit all Jewish people many of whom abhor what Israel is doing.

There was no antisemitism before 7th October 2023 ?

Of course those actions wouldn’t wipe out antisemitic events. Antisemitism is hundreds, if not thousands, of years old.

Glorianny

I deplore any racism whatsoever, no matter who is the target. However I note that there are posts on GN about Muslims which had they been about Jews would certainly have been removed.

There are actions which this country could take to wipe out the basis of any antisemitic views which are being spread today. One would be for MPs to vote for an immediate ceasefire in Gaza and for the bombing to stop. The second would be for the UK to stop supplying arms to Israel until Gaza becomes a free and open country.

Until we show that we are absolutely and completely on the side of human rights the concept that there is some sort of conspiracy going on will remain. There will always be people who will believe that and some will act on it. Condemning the actions of Israel and supporting the Palestinian people would benefit all Jewish people many of whom abhor what Israel is doing.

Yes, I've noticed the same and completely agree with what you have posted. In the middle of the night on the world service there was a discussion with regard to the differences between anti semitism, anti Zionism and being critical of this Israeli Prime Minister and actions of the Government. Sorry can't pinpoint which programme but I shall continue being critical of Netanyahu and his cronies until there is a ceasefire and he is replaced by someone with some degree of humanity. His actions are feeding the behaviour of people who are anti semitic just as the actions of Hamas on 7/10 and Al Qaeda on 9/11 fed Islamophobia.

maddyone

Of course those actions wouldn’t wipe out antisemitic events. Antisemitism is hundreds, if not thousands, of years old.

I said they would wipe out the basis of any _being spread today_.
Perhaps you could deal with that. Do you think the basis for some anti-semitic views is the action of Israel and the treatment of Gaza?