Azar Ali

growstuff

Where did that quote come from Callistemon? It's not consistent with records which show that from 1946, Ben-Gurion was buying weapons from all over the place, including at least three B17s.

I'm not surprised Ben-Gurion was trying to buy weapons, having been invaded by five Arab League Nations as soon as the Mandate expired.

He obviously foresaw what would happen if thst is what you say he did.

Whst would any leader do, surrounded by hostile countries?.

Oreo

Evidence for support of hamas? Well let’s start with a number of people openly supporting them by placards, chanting and emblems sewn on clothing, and there would be far more if they didn’t think the police and authorities here would arrest them.Same for all other countries where the Palestinian protests take place.In the West Bank, 50% of people asked about hamas said they agreed with their actions.Certain imams here preaching hateful messages.I bet there was a lot of celebrating in Gaza by residents too on October 7th as such a large percentage of their sons and brothers and fathers took part in the massacre.UNWRA members took part too.
Anyone who believes that there is little support for hamas is either ignorant of the facts or wilfully blind to it.

Even the biased Judge , two women guilty of terrorist charges, no sentence, what sort of message does this send out, Islamists break the law, then it doesn't matter. One is a failed asylum seeker, who shouldn't even be in this country. Wonder how many more on the awful marches of intimidation , are of the same ilk. As a country we are going down the pan very quickly. I fear most for my grandchildren and great grandchildren,.

Callistemon21

growstuff

Where did that quote come from Callistemon? It's not consistent with records which show that from 1946, Ben-Gurion was buying weapons from all over the place, including at least three B17s.

I'm not surprised Ben-Gurion was trying to buy weapons, having been invaded by five Arab League Nations as soon as the Mandate expired.

Apparently he was buying them for two years before 1948. Israel hadn't been invaded then. Don't forget that Israel declared itself a state a day before the mandate ended. Nothing had been agreed, so Ben-Gurion and Haganah forced the UN's hand.

Callistemon21

He obviously foresaw what would happen if thst is what you say he did.

Whst would any leader do, surrounded by hostile countries?.

Yes, he did foresee what would happen (not disputing that). What I am disputing is your quote that Israel had virtually no weapons.

If Israel had had no weapons, it would have been wiped off the face of the earth.

There was a civil war between Israel and Palestinian groups who were not consulted and disagreed with the way the land was being distributed. The Israelis were well prepared with active and trained armed groups that might well now be described as terrorists, but are given the name freedom fighters. The Arab (or Palestinian) groups were largely casual groups. When it seemed Israeli groups were winning, the other Arab states intervened, although they were not necessarily supporting Palestinians but sometimes seeking to expand their own borders.
It might perhaps have been better to properly discuss the matter before declaring a state of Israel.

In the end it won’t make any difference. People will die.
Unless both sides stop fighting, training armies, stockpiling weapons, issuing threats etc. it will carry on.
Since Hamas, rightly or wrongly is associated in many people’s minds with Palestinians, watching flags supporting Palestine trooping through London doesn’t help to calm things.

The history is viewed differently by different groups. The present doesn’t need to continue the argument. A political solution is needed

Of course the history is viewed differently, but what is absolutely certain is that there is a huge group of Palestinian people who have been dispossessed and driven out of their homeland. And Israel refuses to allow them to return.

If we draw parallels with Ukraine, when the Russians occupied and controlled the land many Ukrainians fled to the UK and the US. They kept their traditions alive and eventually some of the children and grandchildren of those people returned to live in Ukraine. No such a right has ever been accorded to Palestinians they remain third and fourth generation refugees.
You may associate Hamas with those people if you wish. It doesn't lessen their right to have a place they can live in and call home. No person should be termed a refugee all of their life.

I don’t have to associate Hamas with Palestinian people. They do it for themselves.

It doesn't lessen their right to have a place they can live in and call home.

And that applies to both sides of this conflict.
They deserve a place to live in and call home that won’t result in attacks on innocent people on either side.

Unless and until both sides stop fighting, training armies, stockpiling weapons, issuing threats etc. it will carry on.

Unless and until both sides stop fighting, training armies, stockpiling weapons, issuing threats etc. it will carry on
It might help if the US and the UK stopped supplying weapons to Israel.
A Dutch court has ruled that allowing the parts to be exported through Dutch facilities is illegal, under international law.
www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/2/12/court-orders-netherlands-to-halt-delivery-of-fighter-jet-parts-to-israel

I’m waiting for you to say anything suggesting you hold Hamas entirely responsible for the October massacre, the rape of women, burning babies in ovens and allegedly, terrorists phoning their parents to boast of these actions

Of course the history is viewed differently, but what is absolutely certain is that there is a huge group of Palestinian people who have been dispossessed and driven out of their homeland

You could substitute Jewish for Palestinian and more than once too.

Callistemon21

^Of course the history is viewed differently, but what is absolutely certain is that there is a huge group of Palestinian people who have been dispossessed and driven out of their homeland^

You could substitute Jewish for Palestinian and more than once too.

Really? You know of a group of Jewish refugees currently living in refugee camps, with no prospect of returning to their homeland? Or are you actually just using historical events? Which really the Palestinians had no part in.

In fact if we want to go back far enough Jews lived very comfortably in lands ruled by Muslims for centuries. El Andalus had Jewish settlements where they lived until Christians drove out the Muslims and the Spanish inquisition began. When they had a choice, convert or die, some converted and still died. So who was responsible for antisemitism?

Tell us, who was responsible for anti semitism

Yes, do tell us, Glorianny

Please tell

Iam64

Tell us, who was responsible for anti semitism

That’s a good idea Iam64 and Callistemon21.
But . . .

I asked first!!! I realise the answer won't be acceptable to some who want to make it an entirely Muslim problem. But the Muslims had no problems with Jews and so cannot be held responsible in any way for the dispossession Callistemon21 refers to.

Whereas the Israelis (a completely different group of people) are directly responsible for taking the land from Palestinians and not permitting them to return.

We all know that Muslims, jews, Christians, Hindus and more have lived peacefully if not together, then side by side. These peaceful arrangements break down, sometime get re established
Israelis are not ‘a completely different group of people” . They’re Jewish people who as in every other country don’t all support their government
What they all share is a history of pogroms, the holocaust and being the only group of people I’m aware of who have bern banished from wherever they settled, threatened by Hitler and more recently by their neighbours with being wiped off the face of the earth
You avoided the question Gloryannie - who was responsible for anti semitism

Glorianny

I asked first!!! I realise the answer won't be acceptable to some who want to make it an entirely Muslim problem. But the Muslims had no problems with Jews and so cannot be held responsible in any way for the dispossession Callistemon21 refers to.

Whereas the Israelis (a completely different group of people) are directly responsible for taking the land from Palestinians and not permitting them to return.

But I did not say that, did I!!

You really couldn't make it up, could you

Oh - you just did, Glorianny!!

Iam64

We all know that Muslims, jews, Christians, Hindus and more have lived peacefully if not together, then side by side. These peaceful arrangements break down, sometime get re established
Israelis are not ‘a completely different group of people” . They’re Jewish people who as in every other country don’t all support their government
What they all share is a history of pogroms, the holocaust and being the only group of people I’m aware of who have bern banished from wherever they settled, threatened by Hitler and more recently by their neighbours with being wiped off the face of the earth
You avoided the question Gloryannie - who was responsible for anti semitism

Well if you don't understand that two of the basic beliefs of antisemitism are based on original Christian tropes about Jews, it really isn't my fault. But they are there.
The Jews’ started to appear in several Christian stories. Eventually this led to Origen writing in the fourth century ‘the Jews…nailed Christ to the cross’. Origen’s words were taken literally, and this story became the common belief for some Christians
This story, amongst many other factors, was part of a long history of tension between Christianity and Judaism that led to significant antisemitism throughout medieval history

Along with the belief that usury was a sin and Jews benefited from money lending leading to the trope that Jews controlled financial operations worldwide
The fact of Jewish overrepresentation in occupations that Christians largely regarded as degenerate emerged a stereotype of the Jew as the embodiment of commercial greed, exploiter of the poor and the source of economic pain and misery for the masses
So two Christian beliefs underlie antisemitism.
But we now blame it largely on Muslims who until the present conflict and the imposition of Israel on previously Arab lands had few problems with Jews.

Muslims who until the present conflict and the imposition of Israel on previously Arab lands had few problems with Jews.

Proof of this statement?

Glorianny I've noticed you posting several times using italics to indicate quoting passages. Please would it be possible for you to link to or name your source material? Thanks.