Azar Ali

Mollygo

*Muslims who until the present conflict and the imposition of Israel on previously Arab lands had few problems with Jews.*

Proof of this statement?

Bernard Lewis states:

Generally, the Jewish people were allowed to practice their religion and live according to the laws and scriptures of their community. Furthermore, the restrictions to which they were subject were social and symbolic rather than tangible and practical in character. That is to say, these regulations served to define the relationship between the two communities, and not to oppress the Jewish population

Professor of Jewish medieval history at Hebrew University of Jerusalem, Hayim Hillel Ben-Sasson, notes:

The legal and security situation of the Jews in the Muslim world was generally better than in Christendom, because in the former, Jews were not the sole "infidels", because in comparison to the Christians, Jews were less dangerous and more loyal to the Muslim regime, and because the rapidity and the territorial scope of the Muslim conquests imposed upon them a reduction in persecution and a granting of better possibility for the survival of members of other faiths in their lands.

According to the French historian Claude Cahen, Islam has "shown more toleration than Europe towards the Jews who remained in Muslim lands."

There are records of Jews holding positions of power in Al Andalus.
Along with Christians they were accorded some protections.
That isn't to say there was no conflict but it was not as organised nor as damaging as Christian rule, when the Jewish communities in Spain and eventually in Portugal were destroyed by the Inquisition.

.
That isn't to say there was no conflict

Exactly!

So, your conclusion is that anti semitism was created by Christianity. Your determination to deny or minimise anti semitism in the Muslim community isn’t constructive and does not reflect what’s happening right now

Yesterday there was another march in London, police made 12 arrests, the police also had to stop marches through Jewish communities, why march in London Jewish communities? carried out by Christians or antisemites ? the fear in those
communities must be so strong

Iam64

So, your conclusion is that anti semitism was created by Christianity. Your determination to deny or minimise anti semitism in the Muslim community isn’t constructive and does not reflect what’s happening right now

I'm not diminishing anything. Simply pointing out that Muslims are not and have never been entirely opposed to Jews. That many of the roots of antisemitism lie in the doctrines of Christianity and trying to blame one section of society for something which is abhorrent is neither accurate nor helpful.

Nor is it really anything to do with the campaign for Palestinian people to be protected and return to their homes. Many Jews support Palestinian rights.
Many Jews agree with Naomi Wimborne-Idrissi when she says Jews must always stand on the side of the oppressed never the oppressor. She believes Jews who speak for Palestine are ignored www.thenational.scot/news/23895898.pro-palestine-jewish-voices-silenced-media-politicians/

Iam64

So, your conclusion is that anti semitism was created by Christianity. Your determination to deny or minimise anti semitism in the Muslim community isn’t constructive and does not reflect what’s happening right now

It certainly doesn’t reflect what’s happening now, but it suits some to ignore that.

Glorianny, Anniebach asked
why march in London Jewish communities?
Do you have an explanation for that?

Statement from the House of Bishops 13.02.24. I am pleased to see the Church of England has changed it's position and use the words "The manner in which this war is being prosecuted cannot be morally justified. " See below.

"With the onset of Israel’s ground offensive into Rafah, we call for an immediate ceasefire. The relentless bombardment of Gaza and its huge cost in civilian lives and civilian infrastructure must stop. The manner in which this war is being prosecuted cannot be morally justified.

We urge Israel to adhere to the ICJ order and to ensure that Palestinians have access to food, water, healthcare, and safety, that have long been denied to them. We welcome the Foreign Secretary’s recent call for an immediate pauseThe manner in which this war is being prosecuted cannot be morally justified. in the fighting and would also welcome further representation to the Government of Israel about the way that it is exercising its right to self-defence and to affirm adherence to international law.

We continue to advocate for the release of the remaining hostages and an end to the missile attacks on Israel by Hamas. All sides must begin to imagine a future beyond this conflict: for a just peace for Israelis and Palestinians. This war can’t result in the consolidation of a system of occupation that has for too long denied Palestinians their rights and freedoms. "

www.churchofengland.org/media/press-releases/statement-house-bishops-war-gaza-0

Mollygo

Iam64

So, your conclusion is that anti semitism was created by Christianity. Your determination to deny or minimise anti semitism in the Muslim community isn’t constructive and does not reflect what’s happening right now

It certainly doesn’t reflect what’s happening now, but it suits some to ignore that.

Glorianny, Anniebach asked
why march in London Jewish communities?
Do you have an explanation for that?

So what really happened is that traffic police diverted what was described as a "pro-Palestinian convoy"from accessing areas of Neasden in North London. If you have ever been on a protest march in London you will know that participants tend to meet up at different places en route. They then often park somewhere in North London and use the tube to reach the start of the march. There was no march through Jewish areas planned or executed.
The marchers were asked not to pass a synagogue until the worshippers had left and they did so.

30,000 marchers and only 11 arrests.
www.google.com/search?sca_esv=53fc82b34e85f072&sxsrf=ACQVn09ZdxMjcuzIB_lye2YihmeX4p6ZCg:1708257748920&q=17th+Feb+march+through+london&tbm=vid&source=lnms&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj2oLyC7LSEAxXgTEEAHS4aAYMQ0pQJegQIDBAB&biw=1152&bih=623&dpr=1.25#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:afcd0702,vidqVu0M_XLCM,st:0

Why was there even one arrest?
Peaceful protest should ensure that no one is arrested!

maddyone

Why was there even one arrest?
Peaceful protest should ensure that no one is arrested!

Well a couple were people who refused to remove face coverings (I really don't know why)
Crowds tend to be open to all sorts of people. Over 2000 people were arrested at football matches last year. Watching a game no one should be arrested.

Oh I see. Thank you for your explanation.
Were they marching in support of the Hamas branch of Palestinians I wonder?

Mollygo

Oh I see. Thank you for your explanation.
Were they marching in support of the Hamas branch of Palestinians I wonder?

They were marching because they think nearly 30,000 dead is too many ( I just realised that is the same number as the marchers!). They were chanting for a cease fire and for the people of Gaza. The stateless, landless Palestinian people driven into Rafah where they are now being bombed
www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/feb/15/rafah-gaza-israel-airstrikes-war

From a Jewish friend on yesterday’s march:

The CAA have been pressing the police to act on the Palestine demos in London. The police forced the march yesterday to delay their start so it wouldn’t march past a point close to a synagogue as worshippers left the service. The inference was that marchers would want to attack the worshippers. An incredible insult.
If marchers wanted to attack Jews they would have once again found hundreds of Jews displaying their identity on banners and placards on the march itself.

The march was heading towards the Israeli Embassy because the march was opposing the daily slaughter of Palestinians that is being carried out as Israeli Government policy. Jews, Palestinians, Muslims, Christians, humanists were united in that. Within the Jewish bloc there were Israelis with placards in Hebrew “day lekibush” - end the occupation.

I think the rise in antisemitism so widely reported has meant that schools, synagogues etc need police protection. So sorry if the marchers feelings were hurt.

The marchers were insulted, oh dear how unkind

So where were the Palestinian marchers on October 7th I wonder? Or was their silence in support of the actions of Hamas which started the current conflict?

People have been marching for Palestine for a long time. They have tried to get successive governments to act and support the refugees, end the Israeli blockade and create the two state solution which the UN resolution demanded.
Trying to blame those people by claiming they support the actions of Hamas on October 7th is simply untenable.

So you don’t think Jews who disagree with the Israeli government’s actions have any right to get upset?? Wow. With both antisemitism and Islamophobia rising together, especially on social media, it is clearly a time to encourage dialogue instead of escalating divisions.

It is very disturbing to see organisations, especially those that receive charitable funds, pulling determinedly in the opposite direction. Campaign Against Antisemitism (CAA) have been working overtime to ratchet up fear/paranoia among Jews, labelling any criticism of Israeli policy/actions as antisemitic and blood libel.

CAA seems to thrive on exacerbating division. Check their Twitter feed and look at the responses they attract in support of their posts: full of vile, racist, Islamophobic, and far right rhetoric. Is that what you agree with?

Turn it around? Do you agree with all the antisemitic responses on SM, vile racist anti Jew stuff?
Even the Labour Party has just had to stand down a Muslim candidate.There will be much that isn’t reported either.
Starmer has had his work cut out getting rid of antsemites but many still lurk there.

G said
People have been marching for Palestine for a long time.
I asked

So where were the Palestinian marchers on October 7th I wonder? Or was their silence in support of the actions of Hamas which started the current conflict?

Mollygo

G said
People have been marching for Palestine for a long time.
I asked

So where were the Palestinian marchers on October 7th I wonder? Or was their silence in support of the actions of Hamas which started the current conflict?

Do you have any concept of the organisation necessary to organise a march? This is one of the most stupid questions I've seen on GN. I could ask have you ever marched? And if you haven't does that show you endorse the mass slaughter Israel are currently imposing on the people of Gaza?

That's right bmacca. We are all far right. Well done. Excellent analysis.

There are marches in Tel Aviv calling on Netanyahu to resign. Israel needs a change of government if there is to be any chance of peace

www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-middle-east-68331272

The reports I read were that yesterday's march was reported as peaceful by the Police. There were many obviously Jewish people on the march (banners etc), and very few arrests so how (why?) do some of you still insist that being appalled by the actions of Netanyahu, appalled by the 30000 deaths, somehow makes one an apologist for or supporter of, Hamas? Netanyahu is not universally supported by Israeli citizens, by calling for his removal they are not anti-semitic, nor supporters of Hamas, and the same applies to me

Don’t hold your breath waiting for Netanyahu to go, the Israeli government mean to drive Hamas out of Gaza, if they were going to back down they would have done it long ago.