Islamaphobia is getting out of control

foxie48

I subscribe to the Guardian, Telegraph, Washington Post and New European and am an avid Googler. In every publication I find views I agree with and some I don't!

Back to the topic, according to the 2021 census 6% of the population said they were Muslim. This 6% will represent a very wide range of views and religious observance.
commonslibrary.parliament.uk/constituency-data-religion/
Social cohesion comes from tolerance and this current rise in Islamaphobia is very destructive and based on untruths. Most Muslims, like most Christians, Jews and those of us without faith are law abiding people who are more interested in the well being of their family and neighbours than creating disorder. Putting the spotlight on the behaviour of a minority of people and suggesting they are representative of the whole is a recipe for creating dissent as well as being frankly "racist". I've used that word because IMO that is what it is. By all means abhor the behaviour of those showing anti semitic behaviour on the marches as I do but do not suggest they represent "Muslims" or "Arabs" because they do not. They represent a small vocal section of people on the marches with extreme racist views. If we agree with people like Anderson we are doing the work of extremists for them because they thrive on social chaos and disorder.

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Oh I dont think those on the marches particularly represent muslims, I think they represent those who think they are progressive and right and will pretty much do anything to make this point. I am generally quite scared of those people. Men in masks scare me. I can pretend they dont if you want.

By all means abhor the behaviour of those showing anti semitic behaviour on the marches as I do but do not suggest they represent "Muslims" or "Arabs" because they do not. They represent a small vocal section of people on the marches with extreme racist views.
Indeed, but that is the problem. No one appears to be controlling these thugs, so confidence in order and safety is lost. People become wary and scared.
As an aside, we came across a small rallye supporting Palestine whilst in Dam Square, Ansterdam, last month. A peaceful group handing out a few leaflets and drinking coffees. No chanting, no aggression, absolutely fine, and more effective than some of the thugs seen on the rampage in London.

I think it's very easy to try to "lump" people into particular boxes because of their politics, beliefs and views. I'm probably slightly guilty of that (though for the most part it's tongue in cheek as to what I think about DM readers!) I was brought up by parents who were, at the time, staunch Tories, adored Thatcher and though striking miners were scumbags (Thankfully they've mellowed hugely!)
Equally, working in retail selling newspapers, you get a good measure of readership, demographic AND the comments & conversations which take place in the brief moments of a sale. So my comments aren't unfounded. But to also suggest that anyone who is deemed "left wing" isn't scared of terrorism, being harassed by large groups of people or scared of being assaulted is foolish. I don't like big crowds or gangs of people.. If I'm on the Tube my brain will, on occasions, go into overdrive and think all manner of awful scenarios. I'm fully aware of the fact that there people out there who want to cause others harm. The difference is, I try my best not to let this interfere with my politics. It is entirely possible to have reasoned debate without blaming an entire faith/race/culture for the misdemeanours of a few and allowing that to hinder our rational thinking.

Galaxy

Oh I dont think those on the marches particularly represent muslims, I think they represent those who think they are progressive and right and will pretty much do anything to make this point. I am generally quite scared of those people. Men in masks scare me. I can pretend they dont if you want.

Galaxy there were few if any men in masks at the last London march.
The evidence is here eu.usatoday.com/videos/news/world/2024/02/23/crowds-of-protesters-call-for-ceasefire-during-marching-in-london/72641539007/
There's more here. Not a mask in sight
news.sky.com/video/thousands-of-pro-palestinian-protesters-in-central-london-for-global-day-of-action-13047780
Ordinary people marching because they care.

Police will be given new powers to arrest protesters who wear face coverings under new laws cracking down on disorder, ministers have announced. Demonstrators flouting an order to remove their mask could be jailed for a month and fined up to £1,000

Source The Independent

SeaWoozle

I think it's very easy to try to "lump" people into particular boxes because of their politics, beliefs and views. I'm probably slightly guilty of that (though for the most part it's tongue in cheek as to what I think about DM readers!) I was brought up by parents who were, at the time, staunch Tories, adored Thatcher and though striking miners were scumbags (Thankfully they've mellowed hugely!)
Equally, working in retail selling newspapers, you get a good measure of readership, demographic AND the comments & conversations which take place in the brief moments of a sale. So my comments aren't unfounded. But to also suggest that anyone who is deemed "left wing" isn't scared of terrorism, being harassed by large groups of people or scared of being assaulted is foolish. I don't like big crowds or gangs of people.. If I'm on the Tube my brain will, on occasions, go into overdrive and think all manner of awful scenarios. I'm fully aware of the fact that there people out there who want to cause others harm. The difference is, I try my best not to let this interfere with my politics. It is entirely possible to have reasoned debate without blaming an entire faith/race/culture for the misdemeanours of a few and allowing that to hinder our rational thinking.

Good post.

I try not to walk past a rowdy gang of young men because I have this (almost certainly unfounded) fear, and because I can’t run anymore. But on the other hand I can’t remember seeing a gang of young men to walk past - so I need to get a grip.

I am not frightened of walking past a person of any faith - never occurs to me.

I have taken part in many protest marches in my time so protest marches hold zero fear for me.

I am a bit frightened of bully dogs and would give them a wide berth if I have my terrier with me.

I very occasionally tramp around the streets in the middle of the night if my dog has an upset tummy - never frightened, but I once did change direction because a chap was stood alone in the shade.

I think it largely is a case of getting a grip and being stern with yourself and talk common sense into your brain.

I have seen the men in masks, I can again pretend I havent. So those marches scare me. The slogans scare me. I dont live in London so I dont have to make decisions about it. I wouldnt organise a holiday to London at the moment mainly because of the risk of disruption.

I have also seen men and women covering their faces on the pro-Palestine marches Galaxy

We will not go into London on a Saturday whilst these marches continue.

I went on many protest marches, never like the marches in London we now see, I have never stood outside anyone’s home protesting . To compare the London marches re Palastine with
previous marches? no comparison

As I have said nothing to do with muslims, I would spend my life terrified at work if that was the case.
Over the past few years those who think they are right and wear that 'rightness' like a badge, scare me.

GrannyGravy13

I have also seen men and women covering their faces on the pro-Palestine marches Galaxy

We will not go into London on a Saturday whilst these marches continue.

We do - as do my family - never think about it. We know where they are taking place so avoid that area if we don’t want to be held up. Otherwise would choose another day.

But I support a democratic right and the minor inconvenience is a price worth paying, if you think of the alternative.

I think it is very alarming that politicians are afraid of these disgusting violent people . The danger is they will not speak their mind for fear of retribution. That’s not democracy is it ? The police should do something about it and they should not be allowed to crowd round parliament. Whoever they are supporting.

The alternative? peaceful marches without face coverings

So, doesn't this bring us back to the title of the thread? Islamophobia.
It's not always easy to put a finger on people's fears, but I always thought a phobia is connected to something specific, (like spiders). What that then suggests to me, is that this somewhat excessive fear is linked to something very real, as manifested in the actual threatening uprisings on the streets. The situation causes you to be scared, which translates into Islamo*phobia*.
You can quote all the statistics and articles in the world, but you can't measure people's feelings when they feel threatened or scared.

Incidentally I don't feel afraid in London. I felt more afraid in the days of the IRA. (A justified fear, seeing as Ross McWhirter was shot dead on his doorstep next door but one to my childhood home).
But I do think the police need to exercise control better.

Pro-Palestinian campaigners demonstrating on Tower Bridge, in London, blocked traffic and set off flares on Saturday evening.

Unacceptable.

Folk are allowed to be scared, cautious and fearful. There is a lot going on right now which rightly makes people feel this way and I also believe that we shouldn't necessarily invalidate those fears. By the very nature of this forum, many people here, I'm guessing, are older than myself and have lived through eras which have been troublesome or difficult. I was living in London at the time of the IRA bombings and heard one of them going off. A friend of mine had a "friend" who we were certain had something to do with it, but he'd long disappeared. I was in the TA and had to drive different routes, always check my car, be on the lookout.
I was young and just saw it as an inconvenience. But when I think about it now, it does scare me to.think.what could have happened.
But while we should be cautious and keep our wits about us, we have to try to remain rational. It's this irrational fear of the unknown which is fuelling this anger and mistrust. It's what the media wants and people are playing into their hands. There will ALWAYS be people from all sides of the human race who are trying to cause division, upset and chaos for those around them. It is up to us to vote for the people we trust to help keep us safe (hard at the moment, I appreciate!) and try to keep a level head and realise that not everyone is out to get us.

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GrannyGravy13

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Saw the London Bridge demo, why is it allowed, understandable these demonstrations cause fear

SeaWoozle I was working close to the Tower of London on 17/07/1974 when the IRA blew up one of the towers.

We have a young friend who was on the tube when the bomb went off, she didn’t want to be plastered all over the front pages of newspapers the next morning.

London has always had its moments

Urmstongran

Pro-Palestinian campaigners demonstrating on Tower Bridge, in London, blocked traffic and set off flares on Saturday evening.

Unacceptable.

I think The Met are worried about being seen as racist so they stand by and watch…

GrannyGravy13

If you were faced with a gang of folk with flares, what would you do?

Our police are largely unarmed. They'd be unwise to start firing into crowds. Or maybe we need people like the french CRS who are awful humans who use massive strong arm tactics, even at the slightest hint of protest or violence.

I've stood between a group of refugees and a gang of CRS because a refugee got upset over some rice. It was terrifying but necessary otherwise they were going to start firing CS gas at innocent people. In my best French I told the CRS everything was OK and they could leave.

I don't know what the answer is but that's not what I'd want....

As I said, I felt very afraid when we went to London for three days with the children, in particular because of my grandson’s anxiety. But rightly his mother doesn’t want to keep him wrapped in cotton wool and so he does all that the other two do. He was very anxious when we first arrived in London and pulled his hood up over his head, and looked at the ground. He is a rather small ten year old (actually was nine then.) Thankfully all pro Palestine marches were taking place at weekends then and so we only came across a small Trans Rights demonstration outside Downing Street. They were not at all threatening, the children barely noticed them. To be honest the marches taking place every Saturday look very frightening, and all the people certainly don’t appear to be Muslims. Those who are not apparently Muslim are very vociferous and unpleasant. I saw the march yesterday on television and they were allowed to completely block Tower Bridge and were setting off flares and shouting slogans. Very intimidating for anyone trying to walk across the bridge, well actually I don’t think anyone could walk across the bridge.
No wonder people keep out of London at weekends.
If we’d seen this when in London with my grandchildren, my grandson would have been terrified. I think it’s gone on more than long enough and no one should have to avoid going into London at weekends because they are afraid or their child would be terrified.