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Islamaphobia is getting out of control

(764 Posts)
Whitewavemark2 Sat 24-Feb-24 07:13:37

We have Braverman and Anderson stirring up the most awful Islamaphobia.

I don’t think that we have ever had British MPs saying such racist and hateful rhetoric since Mosely. They are being backed by the worst sort of editorship. It is so redolent of the 20s and 30s.

Jewish and Christian leaders are calling for it to stop, as well as Tories who see this as a disaster for their party, as it will never ever end well.

Rory Stewart

This idea that “London is in the grip of Islamists” is deluded and it’s awful - an obsession that thrives among a bizarre and dangerous coalition. No conservative MP should ever be spouting this stuff.

M0nica Wed 28-Feb-24 12:14:49

It doesn't matter who was committing the terrorism in Ireland the fact is the number of attacks compared with Islamist ones. I am not sure any of the protestant attacks were on the mainland.

However, and I write as member of the irish catholic community, the main cause and main perpetrators of terrorism were the IRA. The IRA campaign had nothing to do with Civil Rights. It was everything about getting a United Ireland. I am well aware of the rank inequalities and lack of civil rights of the catholic communities in Ireland, but there was an effective non-violent Civil Rights campaign running before the IRA upped the ante and took ove,r then ignored the work for Civic Rights. Indeed by their actions they set back any improvement in Civil Rights and unification in Ireland by at least a generation.

Oreo Wed 28-Feb-24 12:18:43

Galaxy

What are we doing now? I have lost track. Pretending the IRA are the current threat?

Def what’s going on.
That was then and it’s now we need to worry about.Not only muslim extremism affecting the world, but here trying to influence voting and intimidating MP’s in their homes and offices.
It’s whataboutery alright.
And I have to wonder why, tho I think I already know the answer.

SporeRB Wed 28-Feb-24 13:16:40

maddyone

I was frightened too growstuff and I think we all were. I was always aware if I went to London, exactly the same as now.

Maddyone, can I ask you some simple questions?

When you went to London, did anyone spat on the ground in front of you whilst you are walking?

Do you encounter anyone who looked at you with so much hatred as if they would like to kill you?

Do you have anyone came to you and told you to your face to go back to your own country?

Do you have a boss that came to you and forbid you from wearing clothes that represent your religion?

Do you have a child who did not acknowledge your family on social media when she was young because she worried what other people thought of her?

Do you have someone at your office killed during the 7/7 bombing in London?

Do you have relatives on your husband’s side that hate you because of your religion and tried to break up your marriage, intimidated you and even trespassed your property when you were not there?

All the above happened to me and my Muslim family when they came to visit me from abroad as tourists but that does not stop any one of us from visiting London or anywhere else for that matter.

My daughter’s partner went to Israel to trace his Jewish ancestry and he was taken in for questioning twice at the airport because there was a stamp in his passport of a country that did not recognised Israel as a country.
A country he and my daughter visited to see my family a few months before.

I told him that is definitely a holiday to remember, it is not everyday you visit a country and end up taken in twice for questioning.

maddyone Wed 28-Feb-24 13:18:31

It’s whataboutery alright.

Thank you Oreo, I said it was, it was denied.
Of course it is.

maddyone Wed 28-Feb-24 13:21:09

SporeRB

And your point is?

bmacca Wed 28-Feb-24 16:01:55

“Based on the views of Conservative members, it’s clear why Anderson, Braverman et al feel increasingly emboldened to push the boundaries of decency and speak negatively of Muslims, immigrants and multiculturalism more generally. The battle for the soul of Conservative party has begun. And so far, the radical right is winning”

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/feb/28/tories-islamophobic-conservative-party-members-hope-not-hate

TheatreLover Wed 28-Feb-24 16:10:48

SporeRB

maddyone

I was frightened too growstuff and I think we all were. I was always aware if I went to London, exactly the same as now.

Maddyone, can I ask you some simple questions?

When you went to London, did anyone spat on the ground in front of you whilst you are walking?

Do you encounter anyone who looked at you with so much hatred as if they would like to kill you?

Do you have anyone came to you and told you to your face to go back to your own country?

Do you have a boss that came to you and forbid you from wearing clothes that represent your religion?

Do you have a child who did not acknowledge your family on social media when she was young because she worried what other people thought of her?

Do you have someone at your office killed during the 7/7 bombing in London?

Do you have relatives on your husband’s side that hate you because of your religion and tried to break up your marriage, intimidated you and even trespassed your property when you were not there?

All the above happened to me and my Muslim family when they came to visit me from abroad as tourists but that does not stop any one of us from visiting London or anywhere else for that matter.

My daughter’s partner went to Israel to trace his Jewish ancestry and he was taken in for questioning twice at the airport because there was a stamp in his passport of a country that did not recognised Israel as a country.
A country he and my daughter visited to see my family a few months before.

I told him that is definitely a holiday to remember, it is not everyday you visit a country and end up taken in twice for questioning.

SporeRB I live in central London, and I am so sorry that your family have had such a frightening experience of the city. It is perfectly understandable why some people are cautious about coming into London, and if they are wary then they are sensible not to come into the city. I can only speak personally, and have never felt frightened here. This is despite living near enough to Tavistock Square to have heard the bomb explode on the bus on 7 July 2007, and being caught up in the aftermath. I also worked at an event in the area of London Bridge the day after the stabbings a few years ago. The police agreed for the event to go ahead, and all of us involved in the event turned up, as did most of the patrons, as we did not want the terrorists to frighten us into cancelling the event. I found your questions really thought provoking as I think that I have to answer 'no' to all of your questions, and so maybe that is why I am not frightened to live in London. I have, for instance, never been told to go home, but the mother of a friend of mine, a British Citizen, was told to go home on one occasion, but that was the day after the Brexit referendum, but it caused the same upset that your family must feel when they are thus treated. I do have both Muslim and Jewish friends, and the current rise in Islamophobia and Anti-Semitism is indeed very worrying.

SeaWoozle Wed 28-Feb-24 16:30:04

SporeRB

I'm so sorry this happened to you. Big hugs 🤗🤗

(Someone spat in my face once, in London many years ago. Not because of my race/religion but because he was a disgusting human. It is one of the most degrading things which has ever happened to me)

growstuff Wed 28-Feb-24 16:51:30

Oreo

Galaxy

What are we doing now? I have lost track. Pretending the IRA are the current threat?

Def what’s going on.
That was then and it’s now we need to worry about.Not only muslim extremism affecting the world, but here trying to influence voting and intimidating MP’s in their homes and offices.
It’s whataboutery alright.
And I have to wonder why, tho I think I already know the answer.

No, it's not whataboutery, but maybe you could tell us the answer to your own question.

growstuff Wed 28-Feb-24 16:53:21

Islamophobia is about discrimination, fear and stereotyping. That's what happened all those years ago, except the target was a different group.

Oreo Wed 28-Feb-24 16:57:51

Happens all the time to Jews growstuff do you have the same sympathy?

Anniebach Wed 28-Feb-24 17:19:37

The Jews have lived with fear,discrimination and stereotyping and still are

foxie48 Wed 28-Feb-24 17:50:37

Oreo

Happens all the time to Jews growstuff do you have the same sympathy?

Why on earth would anyone think that because someone calls out Islamaphobia that they wouldn't do exactly the same because someone is being anti semitic? It is such an odd way to think. If you believe that unfair discrimination is wrong, it really doesn't matter if it against Jews, Catholics, Muslims, gays or any other group. It is all equally wrong and should be recognised and called out for what it is.

growstuff Wed 28-Feb-24 17:59:27

Oreo

Happens all the time to Jews growstuff do you have the same sympathy?

Yes.

growstuff Wed 28-Feb-24 18:01:31

foxie48

Oreo

Happens all the time to Jews growstuff do you have the same sympathy?

Why on earth would anyone think that because someone calls out Islamaphobia that they wouldn't do exactly the same because someone is being anti semitic? It is such an odd way to think. If you believe that unfair discrimination is wrong, it really doesn't matter if it against Jews, Catholics, Muslims, gays or any other group. It is all equally wrong and should be recognised and called out for what it is.

I agree with you. It's very weird. Are sympathy and empathy subject to rationing or something?

Oreo Wed 28-Feb-24 18:45:57

It’s possible to have sympathy with both forms of course, but have been reading these kind of threads ever since the hellish events of 7th October and saddened to see the sheer amount of antisemitic comments and feelings, often slightly disguised and sometimes not, and yes thanks I do know the difference between criticism of the Israeli government and Jews in Israel and elsewhere.Am not the only poster who’s noticed this.

Anniebach Wed 28-Feb-24 19:18:04

No Oreo

M0nica Wed 28-Feb-24 22:40:08

For those who think comparisons should not be made with other groups and other times, you have clearly never lisened to the R4 programme 'The long View' introduced by Jonathon Freedland. which is described as series in which stories from the past are compared with current events.

This programme does just what we are doing here making comparisons with broadly similar events, one current and others historic, whether Islamophobia, anti-Semitism or the persecution faced by Irish catholics

growstuff Wed 28-Feb-24 23:33:53

Oreo

It’s possible to have sympathy with both forms of course, but have been reading these kind of threads ever since the hellish events of 7th October and saddened to see the sheer amount of antisemitic comments and feelings, often slightly disguised and sometimes not, and yes thanks I do know the difference between criticism of the Israeli government and Jews in Israel and elsewhere.Am not the only poster who’s noticed this.

It's good to see you calling out bigotry Oreo, as there's plenty of it on GN, directed at different groups. However, as this thread is specifically about Islamophobia I wonder if it might be more appropriate if you start a new thread.

M0nica Thu 29-Feb-24 08:08:05

Some posters do seem to see bigotry under every fallen leaf. It is right and proper that we should all be able to criticise something without being seen as bigotted. That is what free speech is.

It does not follow that because a group can claim to being discrimiated against, that criticism of an individual in that group is not justified.

Galaxy Thu 29-Feb-24 08:25:02

Or a belief system/religion in particular.

SeaWoozle Thu 29-Feb-24 09:16:01

M0nica

Some posters do seem to see bigotry under every fallen leaf. It is right and proper that we should all be able to criticise something without being seen as bigotted. That is what free speech is.

It does not follow that because a group can claim to being discrimiated against, that criticism of an individual in that group is not justified.

I will defend someone's right to free speech. I will also defend someone's right to respond. There are a few people in this forum who are unable to have reasoned debate WITHOUT coming across as racist and bigoted.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

maddyone Thu 29-Feb-24 09:19:48

And much barely concealed antisemitism. On this and other threads.

Galaxy Thu 29-Feb-24 09:40:11

Seawoozle there are people on GN who are lecturing about racism who have been deleted for antisemitism, its not possible for me to take their lectures seriously.

GrannyGravy13 Thu 29-Feb-24 09:40:25

maddyone

And much barely concealed antisemitism. On this and other threads.

Unfortunately true maddyone