Is there anyone who still thinks that Israel's actions in Gaza are justifiable?

This is the first time in Israel’s history, that the USA has disagreed so profoundly with Israeli actions.

Both Biden and Trump are calling for Israel to stop the war.

Israel is becoming totally isolated.

You simply can’t behave as Israel are doing and expect no consequences.

Callistemon- yesterday at 11.35, makes a significant point. You cannot have a rational discussion over entitlement to land where one side says that their God gave it to them.

I found this article very chilling. As far as I know, it is a minority of Israelis who want this; certainly all Israelis and Jews that I know personally don't.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68650815

The problem is that Netanyahu is keeping himself in power by having these right wing Zionists in his government. With regard to Israel's ability to spread propaganda, some of the corruption allegations against Netanyahu is that he bought influence with Israeli media moguls so he could control the media. Does anyone really believe that the IDF is doing it's best to keep civilians safe? I don't. I think they're indiscriminately killing any male and if they kill women and children too then they are just collateral!

The only way it seems to me that Israel will comply with a cease fire is when they no longer receive arms support from countries such as the US and U.K. On the Today programme this am I heard that Canada has stopped supplying arms and our government may do so. About time I think.

I feel sorry for moderate Israelis because the extremists remain in charge, and when some citizens can come out openly discussing where they plan to settle in Gaza, now reduced to an open graveyard, it is sickening.

Until USA stops supplying arms our contribution (which is mostly aircraft components) is approximately 6% of arms supplies into Israel.

I have a horrible feeling in the pit of my stomach that this is not going to end any time soon.

I have a certain amount of empathy with the lower ranks of the IDF, they have to do military service, and they are following orders from above. To disobey a military order in a war setting is not possible in most instances.

"Professor Nick Maynard, the former director for cancer services at Oxford University who worked at the al-Aqsa hospital in central Gaza at the beginning of the year, accused the Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) of “appalling atrocities”.

Oreo this is one of the doctors I heard talking about what he witnessed first hand in Gaza. He's not Palestinian or Muslim or a member of Hamas. He's a British consultant with 35 years experience who has helped train doctors in Gaza for a number of years. He saw the IDF deliberately destroying CTC scanners, oxygen tanks etc, why were they doing this, did they think there were terrorists hiding in them or did they do this to wreck the medical infrastructure? I know what I think. He is one of many doctors who have spoken about the atrocities they have seen, are you saying they are all Hamas sympathisers and not to be believed?

I have a certain amount of empathy with the lower ranks of the IDF, they have to do military service, and they are following orders from above. To disobey a military order in a war setting is not possible in most instances.

Unfortunately one of the consequences of being brought up in countries that experience violence is that the young become hardened to it. IDF soldiers are looting the homes of Gazans and boasting that it is part of the revenge.

www.haaretz.com/opinion/2024-02-19/ty-article-opinion/.premium/israeli-soldiers-looting-in-gaza-is-part-of-the-revenge/0000018d-c296-dfbc-a3af-dad756540000

Oreo

Posters supporting Gaza only ( you know who you are) seem incapable of thinking that doctors could be supportive of hamas and their aims.Why on earth? Have you forgotten that the fortunately inept would be terrorists that attacked an airport building in Scotland were doctors in training?
Hospitals in Gaza are rife with hamas fighters and hamas supporters amongst hospital staff.
Release the hostages, all of them, to achieve a ceasefire.

I take it that this is aimed at me for one.
So let's unpick it. Firstly I do not support only Gaza. I fully acknowledge the right of Israel to exist as a state and to defend its borders. However I do not support its treatment of the Palestinian people and the country of Gaza. Many of us have for years objected to what was happening. We saw the mistreatment and the subjugation of a people and protested about it. But supported by the US and supplied with arms by many countries Israel continued to occupy land the UN had decreed should be returned to Palestinians, and subjected them to blockades and huge inequalities.
Israel is now destroying Gaza and the Palestinian people. It has gone further this time that it did in its last bombing campaign. It is committing genocide and that is completely unacceptable

As for the hospitals and doctors, watch this report by a Palestinian American doctor who went to work there in January. The doctors treating patients in Khan Younis hospital are overwhelmed. They may support Hamas, but they are not fighting they are too busy trying to cope with the casualties.
It's an eyewitness report. It is harrowing
www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5gqR_irY3I

It is utterly harrowing Glorianny; it should be watched by anyone who doubts what is going on.

Oreo I haven't seen a single person on Gransnet that is 'supporting Gaza only'. All have deplored what Hamas did; not one has shown the slightest support or approval for Hamas, only for the innocent civilians caught up in this genocide, whether they are Israeli or Palestinian.

This terrible war using weapons of starvation as well as bombs and bullets will not help Israelis be safe in the future; just the opposite. This huge suffering and loss of life is totally unjustified.

As to doctors, non Palestinian and non muslim doctors who are working in Gaza will be Pro Palestinian otherwise they wouldn’t be there.
Palestinian doctors themselves in Gaza will either be pro hamas or doing their bidding from necessity.
You can’t always believe what any of them say.I know I don’t.

Oreo

As to doctors, non Palestinian and non muslim doctors who are working in Gaza will be Pro Palestinian otherwise they wouldn’t be there.
Palestinian doctors themselves in Gaza will either be pro hamas or doing their bidding from necessity.
You can’t always believe what any of them say.I know I don’t.

Did you watch the video of the doctor's experiences Oreo? Even if they are pro Palestinian the real evidence of children seriously wounded, of patients being operated on on the floor, of a hospital, massively overstretched, being fired on can't be faked. And as the American doctor said some of the Palestinian doctors chose to stay with the patients they were treating while the Israelis shelled the building, risking their own lives for others.
Khan Younis was of course the place Israel told Palestinians to move to. Then it shelled them.

Oreo my niece has, over the years, worked for a number of different charities. She believes in using her skills to help people. She has worked in Darfur, Liberia, Ghana, etc and currently manages huge projects in a number of African countries. She isn't affiliated with or supportive of any of the political or terrorist groups in the countries she's worked in. She's been involved in medical, educational and projects involved in improving access to clean water etc. It's really sad that you think people must have an "ulterior" motive when they just have a social conscience and want to "make a difference" in the world. Oreo There are some really good people in this world, I hope you meet some of them and it helps you to lose some of your cynicism.

Ridiculous foxie48
With the war on hamas you need a dollop of cynicism.
This has nothing to do with your relatives in African countries.
The words of doctors in Gaza can’t be swallowed whole, but if you and others choose to that’s fine by me.

Oreo

Ridiculous foxie48
With the war on hamas you need a dollop of cynicism.
This has nothing to do with your relatives in African countries.
The words of doctors in Gaza can’t be swallowed whole, but if you and others choose to that’s fine by me.

I wonder why you can't accept the images ? Reject the words by all means, but the sight of patients being treated on the floor, of children with amputated limbs or severe burns, how can you ignore those?
Doctors who have worked in Gaza have reported the situation to the UN. They can't all be lying.

Are you saying Medicin Sans Frontiere (which has worked in Palestine for some time) are pro Hamas?)

Read this. msf.org.uk/article/israel-palestine-msf-calls-indiscriminate-violence-and-collective-punishment-stop

Water Aid is also involved: their report

www.wateraid.org/uk/media/wateraid-response-to-israel-and-palestine-crisis

These are non political humanitarian organisations, as of course is Unicef.

Daniella Weiss is a far right-wing extremist who does not represent the views of most Israelis, certainly not mine

Did you all read that Palestinians admitted that they had made up the lies about IDF soldiers raping them?
And on the other hand, one of our released women hostages has given a chilling and detailed account of the sexual abuse she and others endured while held captive by Hamas

I wonder why some people find it impossible to believe that the IDF is committing atrocities when it's widely reported from a range of reliable sources including in Israel itself? Even a dyed in the wool cynic must realise that some people are telling the truth and not everyone is a supporter of Hamas.

Philippa60

Daniella Weiss is a far right-wing extremist who does not represent the views of most Israelis, certainly not mine

But she represents the views of people who are in Netanyahu's government and who are keeping him in power. That's why you need an election. You might argue that you can't have an election until Hamas is defeated but that is an incentive for Netanyahu to keep the war going rather than focus on getting the hostages released.

Philippa60

Did you all read that Palestinians admitted that they had made up the lies about IDF soldiers raping them?
And on the other hand, one of our released women hostages has given a chilling and detailed account of the sexual abuse she and others endured while held captive by Hamas

I certainly accept that Hamas has committed atrocities tbh I am rather less inclined to believe everything that comes out of the Israeli propaganda machine. What do Israelis think about IDF soldiers looting the homes of Palestinians, bombing Gaza to bits, killing innocent women and children, etc etc. Do they feel that the atrocities committed on 7/10 is a justification for the IDF to also commit atrocities?

At what point will Netanyahu declare that Hamas has been defeated? When the inhabitants of Gaza are all gone? When Hamas terrorists in every other country have been killed?

When he has cleared the land for his squatters to take over...THATS the plan and if you cant see it then you've been ignoring Israeli policy for 70 years.
Israel is a rogue state enabled by the west to commit genocide we are ALL complicit in these deaths of innocents .Oreo do YOU believe everyone over 4 is culpable as stated in the Knesset?

BBC reported yesterday that Israelis are already queuing up for waterfront sites in Gaza. How can this be right?

Indeed paddyann and international governments have ignored the ever encroaching and acknowledged illegal settlements, for years.

Also, depriving Palestinian citizens of food appears to me to be clearly a war crime.
To quote WHO director general Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus Israel was “denying starving people the ability to survive”.