Is there anyone who still thinks that Israel's actions in Gaza are justifiable?

Farzanah

On Radio 4 this morning a spokesman for UNICEF James Elder describes the killing of the World Central Kitchen workers as “utterly horrifying” and an “immense tragedy”.
This has been one of the most dangerous places in living memory to operate, Gaza is breaking too many bleak records - number of children killed, number of people facing catastrophic hunger, record displacement, worst devastation to homes in living memory and largest number of United Nations colleagues killed since it was created”.
Says it all really.

It has been reported that the IDF were informed about the aid workers and their position and they were well marked.

We've only just seen the news.

Their vehicle was marked. The Israeli forces must have known.

David Cameron has called for a “full, transparent explanation” from Israel after the aid workers were killed while travelling in a “deconflicted zone”, a non-profit organisation (NGO) said in a statement.

World Central Kitchen (WCK) claimed the Israel Defence Forces (IDF) carried out the strike despite the NGO “co-ordinating” its movements with the military.

All aid workers should be protected.

IDF is not a terrorist group
War is horrific, there are always innocent casualties.

Terrorism is worse, it is deliberate and, in many cases, targeted, murder.

That little girl we all saw pleading for help was targeted as was the ambulance (presumably with a red cross on its roof). The five year old boy deliberately shot last week? Murder, not a war casualty. Deliberately shooting a pregnant woman in a car?

The IDF are acting like terrorists.

The IDF are acting like terrorists

No, they are not but some of them seem to be out of control.

Candelle you are right in thinking about the those countries you allude to, but they all have very specific and desperate situations:

But they are not all comparable for example, the heavy involvement of Russia in Syria, that Somalia is a split state within Somalia itself. The Yemen is at war (quote wiki)" the civil war is widely regarded as part of the Iran-Saudi proxy conflict"

We could be on the streets about the appalling oppression of minorities in China.

There is anti-semitism involved from some of those who criticise Israel (I am NOT referring to any posts here) but the reality of the conflict in Palestine goes back to the 1940's and messy post colonial boundary drawing and several wars.

There are strong international interests in keeping Israel as part of "the West" (arms and other funding) that have lead to the refusal to accept Palestine as a State. (wiki: "
Since 1973, Israel has received more than $1.7 billion in grants from the US State Department's Migration and Refugee Assistance account to assist in the resettlement of migrants to Israel. ")

I think it's a unique, tragic and complex situation. First priorities are of course a cease fire and aid, but how do we get through the apparently impossible to resolve situation of the occupation of Gaza and the West Bank?

Callistemon21

^The IDF are acting like terrorists^

No, they are not but some of them seem to be out of control.

Sorry, I seem to have contradicted myself, I meant to quote this:
IDF is not a terrorist group

No, they are not but some of them seem to be out of control.

I had not looked at the origins of Hamas and the way that they grew got elected and established their rule over Gaza.

They were elected in 2006 on the pretext of countering the corruption of Fatah, then immediately set about extinguishing any opposition, by murder and beatings of anyone who spoke against them. The indoctrination of children starts at nursery school that Israelis are evil and should be killed.

Today Hamas is Gaza, everyone is controlled directly by them nothing happens without their direction, all the reports we're hearing are directly controled by them and in no way neutral. I simply do not believe that any one in Gaza dare speak out against Hamas policy.

Anyone who doubts their ruthlessness should read about the First Intifada where Hamas killed hundreds of Palestinians who disagreed with them.

I agree with you Katie59.

There's an interesting article in the Telegraph, well worth a read. Few snippets in case you haven't time to read it but this is not how a civilised state conducts a war.
"Soldiers who have returned from Gaza have told the Israeli newspaper Haaretz that local commanders on the ground are randomly establishing “kill zones” in which anyone who enters is killed without question."
"the IDF’s chief of staff, has tried on several occasions to rein in his men but he is constantly undermined by the country’s politicians who continue to dehumanise Palestinians and defend, even praise, IDF and police excesses."
"The Telegraph interviewed two IDF drone operators in December at a base outside Tel Aviv. They said they never operate without a lawyer on an uplink, plus eyes on the ground and a senior officer in the room." The clearly marked convoy was hit three times! Doesn't look like an accident to me.
Cogat (Coordinator of Government Activities in the Territories) had assured the convoy’s leader that they could pass through checkpoints within Gaza without further searches as these had been conducted at the hospital before departure by the IDF and the patients were extremely frail.

However, the convoy was stopped and critically ill patients – including a child who had suffered amputations – were searched at gunpoint.

www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/04/02/why-is-israel-defence-forces-killing-innocent-people/

I too agree with Katie59 , so many doctors make claims against Israel, Hamas control hospitals

Katie59

I had not looked at the origins of Hamas and the way that they grew got elected and established their rule over Gaza.

They were elected in 2006 on the pretext of countering the corruption of Fatah, then immediately set about extinguishing any opposition, by murder and beatings of anyone who spoke against them. The indoctrination of children starts at nursery school that Israelis are evil and should be killed.

Today Hamas is Gaza, everyone is controlled directly by them nothing happens without their direction, all the reports we're hearing are directly controled by them and in no way neutral. I simply do not believe that any one in Gaza dare speak out against Hamas policy.

Anyone who doubts their ruthlessness should read about the First Intifada where Hamas killed hundreds of Palestinians who disagreed with them.

Quite what this has to do with the indiscriminate slaughter israel is practising in Gaza I don't know.
The view seems to be that as Hamas killed Palestinians it's OK for Israel to do it as well.
Poor Palestinians

There are some very sweeping generalisations above.... I've been looking up the degree of support for Hamas in Palestine and although it has risen since December, it is by not means all Palestinians.

Or, there is support for Hamas but not some of the current tactics being used. I agree that people would not feel they can speak up but I'm not sure all Israelis who disagree with the IDF would feel they can speak up either.

A lot of space has been spent on this thread emphasising that not all Israelis, indeed substantial numbers, do not agree with what their government is doing. Can we not credit Palestinians with the same difference in POV.

IDF snipers are deliberately targeting children.

There are sufficient independent reports now to be entirely confident that this is the case.

It also seems that individuals within the IDF can carry out targeting aid convoys, aid warehouses, marked ambulances etc with impunity, because they know that there will be no censor either from their generals or politicians.

Independent reports ?

Glorianny

Katie59

I had not looked at the origins of Hamas and the way that they grew got elected and established their rule over Gaza.

They were elected in 2006 on the pretext of countering the corruption of Fatah, then immediately set about extinguishing any opposition, by murder and beatings of anyone who spoke against them. The indoctrination of children starts at nursery school that Israelis are evil and should be killed.

Today Hamas is Gaza, everyone is controlled directly by them nothing happens without their direction, all the reports we're hearing are directly controled by them and in no way neutral. I simply do not believe that any one in Gaza dare speak out against Hamas policy.

Anyone who doubts their ruthlessness should read about the First Intifada where Hamas killed hundreds of Palestinians who disagreed with them.

Quite what this has to do with the indiscriminate slaughter israel is practising in Gaza I don't know.
The view seems to be that as Hamas killed Palestinians it's OK for Israel to do it as well.
Poor Palestinians

Everything to do with it Hamas is using hospitals as a base for attacks on Israel deliberately using civilians as shields, this has been their policy from the start to sacrifice civilians to get international support.

It’s Hamas that is causing genocide they are evil cowards they hide behind women and children. Since the came to power in 2006 they destroyed any moderate opposition in Gaza then built their strength until provoking Israel into an invasion.

Even now they are controling food access and starving Palestinians by making it more difficult to get aid in because the don’t care how many die in their crusade to destroy Israel they have no other objective and there will be no peace until Hamas are defeated.

Hamas is Gaza every Palestinian does exactly what Hamas tells them they are worse than Putin, Hitler, or Stalin.

A deliberately targetted attack on 3 clearly marked aid vehicles, far apart from each other. What was Israel`s motive?

The whole world is against Israel now and with good cause

Why do people think all Palestinians are Hamas, they are very poor people driven all the time from their homes, trying to survive another day. How is all this in the name of God? It isn’t. It’s the opposite.
It’s cruel slaughter and no I don’t support It.

Anniebach

Independent reports ?

There are so many doctors now mostly from other countries, like the U.K., Canada, various European countries - all reporting treating children with a single bullet wound to the head or chest.

Bullets from high velocity weapons have a devastating effect on young children. Those who are not dead, are left as paraplegics or blind or with no useful mental capacity.

This isn’t the result of bombing this is the result of the IDF deliberately targeting little ones as they play or run errands etc.

Israel has claimed that its killing of 7 World Central Kitchen food aid workers was an 'error' and says it is investigating. The attack consisted of three separate bombings - across a distance of 2.4km. And as a White House correspondent pointed out in questions to USA government spokesperson John Kirby, the attacks were spread across time, too - with the first strike hitting one vehicle then two more as survivors tried to escape with their wounded in the remaining two: an attack designed to make sure no one got out of it alive.

The 'error' also happens to have achieved Israel's objective of cutting off the only remaining significant supply of food to the two million civilians of Gaza - WCK fed some half million Palestinians - after Netanyahu ordered his forces to prevent any shipping of food by UN agency UNRWA.

It is also demanding the breaking up of UNRWA.

In the (as yet) absence of any foreign country refusing to supply israel the means of continuing with this genocide, I think it is time that we began to refuse imports from Israel - something needs to be done to tell them that genocide is not something any civilised person will tolerate.

UNRWA ? A number were working for Hamas

The news about the behaviour of the Israeli army just gets harder to listen to. I struggle with refusing to supply arms but something needs to change. As well as being disgusting, crimes against humanity, it’s increasingly dangerous to the region and the world.

Jeremy Bowen had an item on the BBC1 10pm news last night, regarding Hezbollah repeatedly sending missiles into Northern Israel to such an extent that there are areas which have now been evacuated.

I do not know what the solution is, but needless killing is surely not the answer.

Who/what agency or country can begin to resolve this escalating horror

Anniebach

UNRWA ? A number were working for Hamas

UNRWA employs over 30K staff, 99% of them are Palestinian, 12 were said to be members of Hamas and were immediately sacked. Let's keep a sense of proportion, please.

Do you think all the people living in Aghanistan support the Taliban? Of course they don't, neither do all the Palestinians living in Gaza support Hamas. However, I bet more do now since the IDF bombed their homes, killed their families, wrecked their hospitals, cut off their water and power and starved them. What an absolute tragedy for Israelis and Palestinians.

Hamas live in the hospitals