Is there anyone who still thinks that Israel's actions in Gaza are justifiable?

The first thing that must happen is Netanyahu needs to go along with the right wing Zionists who see expansion as their right and goal. Israel absolutely relies on the US for it's military power, without it, Israel is very vulnerable from all sides. If I were Biden I'd say the US will only continue with military aid if there is an immediate ceasefire and Netanyahu steps down and leaves politics. Generally,Israelis support the war even if they don't support Netanyahu but they will all understand the consequences of losing US arms. Hopefully, an election would bring about a government that is more open to finding a long term settlement. The IDF will have weakened Hamas but will never wipe it out so there has to be something that gives the Palestinians a future or they will continue to support Hamas. Nothing is going to be easy but this slaughter has to stop, for Israel's sake as much as Gaza. The dehumanisation of Israeli Jews by Hamas has been mentioned upthread, I'm afraid it is also true that Israelis dehumanise Palestinians. Israeli young men and women do their national service in the IDF learning how to kill Palestinians, the only ones who can opt out are the ultra religious who want the Palestinians out of the West Bank and Gaza!

I think this report from Medicin Sans Frontiere worth reading in terms of the hospitals and discussion above. Worth clicking on "How is MSF responding in Gaza?".

www.msf.org/gaza-israel-war

Thank you for the link Wyllow3. I respect MSF as a reliable source of information and the situation is dire.

Yes thanks Wyllow.
MSF is reliable and a charity which goes into places where many others woukdnt.

Thanks for posting this Wyllow3 MSF is a superb humanitarian organisation and will have written a truthful account, although it seems some will only believe what comes out of the mouth of the Israeli propaganda machine. A relative used to work for them in Darfur, it was dreadful and I have to admit it really upsets me when people dismiss the deaths of aid workers as just something that happens in war! Yes, it does happen but not with the regularity that it's happening in Gaza and not when the people doing the killing are the ones who are supposed to be giving protection.

Posted in January- an English surgeon in Gaza had to carry out a double amputation on a very young girl without anesthetic, half her face had been blown away.

Hamas propaganda

I have always supported MSF -in fact it is one of the charities to which I donate.

The work they do throughout the world is exemplary and their integrity is beyond reproach.

When MSF report that aid workers are being attacked, and that children are being targeted. That is exactly what is happening.

To deny what organisations like MSF is telling the world means that your moral and empathetic focus has been completely skewed.

I do not believe a surgeon working under fire in a war zone would subject a child to double amputation without anaesthetic, the child could not have lived, half her face blown off.

The whole business is terribly sad, but it’s what happens in wars.
Hamas hold the answer in their hands. Release whichever hostages are still alive, and stop firing rockets into Israel.
Why so little condemnation of their continuing actions that could end this tomorrow?
I don’t understand, much condemnation of Israel, little of Hamas. Israel have said that the war will end when these two things happen. Hamas refuse. Why? Don’t they want the war to end?

I know that foxie has unequivocally condemned the massacre on 7/10, and so have some others, but not all. However the way forward is the release of any remaining hostages and the cessation of firing rockets into Israel. Hamas refuse.

Anniebach

I do not believe a surgeon working under fire in a war zone would subject a child to double amputation without anaesthetic, the child could not have lived, half her face blown off.

True. The shock to her system would have killed her, poor little mite.

I don’t believe a single word that comes from Hamas.

From BMJ 14/3/24
The BMA has called for an urgent investigation into reports that doctors and other healthcare staff in Gaza have been mistreated and assaulted by the IDF. Latifa Patel, chair of the BMA’s representative body, said the reports were “deeply worrying” and emphasised that all healthcare workers are ‘protected by the Geneva Conventions’.

Is there a link to the surgeon and little girl story?

No Parsley but it was posted by Whitewave

maddyone

I don’t believe a single word that comes from Hamas.

I’m not sure that we can believe a single word coming from IDF either.

We need reports from objective and independent journalists, but the Israel refuses to allow journalists into Gaza. That tells me a lot.

I tend to only take seriously information which is attributable to credible sources. Otherwise I assume it’s biased opinion.

youtu.be/H8O1Hr7fwhw?si=gGUjhWaqC3AKD_JK

www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/single-worst-top-oxford-surgeon-horrors-gaza-hospital/

There are so many reports of children having amputations, facial and head repair being done without anaesthetic that it happening without question.

Reuters has a recent report outlining these incidents. Googling finds you all the information you need.

Of course you can deny it because it doesn’t suit your agenda - but that doesn’t mean it isn’t happening.

The government has legal advice that genocide is happening. Do we want to be complicit by denial?

Most operations in Gaza have been happening without anaesthetic. I posted recently a doctor's account of how he learned to use a razor blade instead of a scalpel in Gaza. I had a much more upsetting account which I didn't post an account by a doctor of a little girl who had had limbs amputated and who needed more healthcare than was available. She was listed as needing evacuation to Israel. It was constantly postponed and never happened and she died of sepsis. Healthcare in Gaza is now minimal, so many hospitals have been destroyed.

This account from yesterday's Guardian of children and old people deliberately targeted is shocking.
www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/02/gaza-palestinian-children-killed-idf-israel-war

My recent post stated:
There have been no weekly marches in London for Syria, yet Syria has had 75,000 deaths but where are the protestors for them? Or Somalia. Or Yemen? What is the difference? All are Islamic countries. The only possible inference is that Israel, a Jewish country is involved in Palestine.

I had a mistype: the Syrian death total is 750,000.

maddyone

The whole business is terribly sad, but it’s what happens in wars.
Hamas hold the answer in their hands. Release whichever hostages are still alive, and stop firing rockets into Israel.
Why so little condemnation of their continuing actions that could end this tomorrow?
I don’t understand, much condemnation of Israel, little of Hamas. Israel have said that the war will end when these two things happen. Hamas refuse. Why? Don’t they want the war to end?

I know that foxie has unequivocally condemned the massacre on 7/10, and so have some others, but not all. However the way forward is the release of any remaining hostages and the cessation of firing rockets into Israel. Hamas refuse.

maddyone it would help your argument more if you recognised that Hamas has indeed offered the release of hostages - it simply has being rejected by the Israeli government.

Now, Israel may be perfectly right in the rejection if Hamas’ offer - but it is not true to say that Hamas has made no such offer.

From Granny Gravy: 'Jeremy Bowen had an item on the BBC1 10pm news last night, regarding Hezbollah repeatedly sending missiles into Northern Israel to such an extent that there are areas which have now been evacuated.'

Yes, this is true. 80,000 Israeli citizens have had to leave their homes. I have previously mentioned these missiles raining down on Israeli homes but it really not acknowledged.

From Whitewavemark2:
'maddyone it would help your argument more if you recognised that Hamas has indeed offered the release of hostages - it simply has being rejected by the Israeli government.

Now, Israel may be perfectly right in the rejection if Hamas’ offer - but it is not true to say that Hamas has made no such offer.'

Completely untrue.

Hamas has not offered the simple terms to end the conflict they began of:

1. releasing the hostages*
2. changing their charter to that of not wanting to murder all Jewish people world-wide.

What could be easier?

Hamas could end the conflict tomorrow if they so wished.

*Hamas want a huge differential in the rate of hostages to Hamas militants in Israeli prisons. These are dangerous men who have killed, not girls and boys at a music festival.

I am not remotely surprised as Israel has been bombing Syria and indeed stepping up their attacks for quite some time.

We just have to hope this doesn’t get worse, although it does partly explain why the USA continues to support Israel by selling them arms, fight Iran by proxy.

Let’s hope Putin doesn’t rear his head.