The new Rwanda Plan

That was to Primrose

LizzieDrip

Some people just don’t get sarcasm!

What was the point of sarcasm when I was telling you about someone who actually works on the front line. Just stupid.

Primrose OK then, here’s a non-sarcastic question. What do you, and your border force ‘informant’, think about the cost of the Rwanda scheme to the UK taxpayer … £1.8m per asylum seeker? I’m genuinely interested!

Primrose53

Dickens you say the traffickers are “vicious and violent”. How very dare you say that. 😝You know full well that anybody involved is lovely, honest, hardworking, brave ……. It’s just that they are looking for better lives. 🤣🤣🤣🤣

I can't imagine anybody would be foolish enough to assume that everybody involved is lovely, honest, hardworking brave That would show a very uncritical mind at work. There are shades of behaviour here and many complexities.


Traffickers, I assume are manipulative people who are happy to exploit people for their own gain. They may use threats and violence and all sorts of hideous ways to do this. A sad facet of human nature.

I think its very dangerous and unpleasant to lump hundreds of people together and give negative labels and use negative launguage. I can't comprehend the hatred really. or the obsession with numbers.
I do know, that its a complete waste of time engaging with any discussion .

zakouma66

Primrose53

Dickens you say the traffickers are “vicious and violent”. How very dare you say that. 😝You know full well that anybody involved is lovely, honest, hardworking, brave ……. It’s just that they are looking for better lives. 🤣🤣🤣🤣

I can't imagine anybody would be foolish enough to assume that everybody involved is lovely, honest, hardworking brave That would show a very uncritical mind at work. There are shades of behaviour here and many complexities.

Traffickers, I assume are manipulative people who are happy to exploit people for their own gain. They may use threats and violence and all sorts of hideous ways to do this. A sad facet of human nature.

I think its very dangerous and unpleasant to lump hundreds of people together and give negative labels and use negative launguage. I can't comprehend the hatred really. or the obsession with numbers.
I do know, that its a complete waste of time engaging with any discussion .

I agree with you, especially your last sentence.

Zakouma66 well said👏

If I was running from danger I don’t think I would choose to run to an island, they are now trapped here along with the rest of us with Ireland possibly the only way out. At least in France the whole of Europe was open to them.

petra

I hope those who worship at the shrine of the EU realise they have much the same plan, and, send €billions to Libya and Tunisia to stop the migrants.

www.theguardian.com/world/2024/mar/06/eu-group-european-peoples-party-von-der-leyen-migration-reforms

No one I know who wanted us to remain a member of the EU believes it to be a sacred alter at which to worship. On the contrary, they were quite able to see the fault lines within it but simply believed we were better served, economically, by remaining a component part of it.

There might be some who believe the EU can do no wrong, but I think most GN Remainers are level-headed and are quite able to observe the way it operates with an open mind.

Migration is a global problem, an increasing one. And there's no reason to believe that parties or nations within the EU - or the EU itself - has found the right formula for dealing with it.

And, it should be pointed out, the UK is not the first choice for those seeking refuge from the ravages of war, climate changes, weather-events, poverty and persecution. The vast majority of refugees - above 70% - have chosen to migrate to countries that border their own (some, presumably, in the hope of being able to return ultimately).

According to the UNHCR, Germany, France, Italy, Spain and Greece, are the countries that take in most of those seeking asylum - we rank somewhere further down the list.

We wanted to 'take back control' and protect our borders. What we have effectively done is ask France to be the border and police it for us. France does not have the manpower to police the whole coastline. Once the migrant boats are in the waters, there is little the maritime police can do other than break international maritime laws to stop them. Which they have in fact done - their is footage of them intercepting the dinghies by aggressively circling them causing waves that destabilise the craft.

Dealing with determined and aggressive traffickers is not as easy as some appear to believe - looking at the matter from the comfort of their armchairs. Coastal locations where these traffickers might operate have stopped the sale of dinghies - and outboard motors. The traffickers simply go online and purchase them. The inland police regularly break up the migrant camps - the migrants just move to another location.

Other than a full-scale war with the traffickers - and migrants - I don't see what more the French can do to protect our borders. Perhaps some of the critics could come up with ideas - realistic ones of course that wouldn't subject the maritime police to sanctions from international law. Nor involve the civilian police in committing crimes that might land them in Court. Or even endanger their own lives.

I can't comprehend .......... the obsession with numbers

I think statistics are important.
They are vital for planning and policy purposes in many areas. Immigration/emigration is but one.

If statistics were not important, then we would have no need for the ONS.

Callistemon21

^I can't comprehend .......... the obsession with numbers^

I think statistics are important.
They are vital for planning and policy purposes in many areas. Immigration/emigration is but one.

If statistics were not important, then we would have no need for the ONS.

Numbers mean very little unless they are converted to statistics.

Statistics tell us a different story from the numbers cited for propaganda purposes. It's concentrating solely on those numbers I think which is being termed an 'obsession'.

MaizieD

Callistemon21

I can't comprehend .......... the obsession with numbers

I think statistics are important.
They are vital for planning and policy purposes in many areas. Immigration/emigration is but one.

If statistics were not important, then we would have no need for the ONS.

Numbers mean very little unless they are converted to statistics.

Statistics tell us a different story from the numbers cited for propaganda purposes. It's concentrating solely on those numbers I think which is being termed an 'obsession'.

Ok, understood.

But it doesn't mean the numbers are untrue.

Of course the statistics show that the number arriving in small boats pales into insignificance with the thousands of immigrants who come here on visas from places like India, the Philippines, Nigeria etc to plug the gaps in teaching, health and care services and the like. However, it suits this government to concentrate on the small boats as it knows that this appeals to many , and gloss over their loosing control of the borders in other ways.

If there were no boats, the people would not risk everything to get here. I can’t understand why, from day I, people were not employed just to wreck and disable the boats, those that do come here processed straightaway, then returned if illegal. It’s disgusting how bad all this has been handled.

It has been badly handled.

If there were no boats, desperate people would try other ways to get here (as they still do).

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-55765213.amp

The solution is safe routes, and decent processing systems.

vegansrock

Of course the statistics show that the number arriving in small boats pales into insignificance with the thousands of immigrants who come here on visas from places like India, the Philippines, Nigeria etc to plug the gaps in teaching, health and care services and the like. However, it suits this government to concentrate on the small boats as it knows that this appeals to many , and gloss over their loosing control of the borders in other ways.

This just shows how powerful the "small boats" trope is because although I keep abreast of the news in general, I had no idea this was the case.

The ones who come over through the visa scheme have done so legally and are paying their own way when they get here, the ones coming over on the small boats are doing so illegally paying people smuggling gangs thousands of Euros to get here. Surely even a child in primary school could see the difference 🤔

Another 359 on 8 boats yesterday, I don't think the French police are doing much to stop them they probably can't wait to get rid of them but then that only encourages more to come, a win win and millions of Euros in the People Smuggling gangs pockets.

Nicenanny
the ones coming over on the small boats are doing so illegally paying people smuggling gangs thousands of Euros to get here

They are doing so because the UK government has closed down all legal routes for their countries, so they cannot apply for asylum from Syria, Afghanistan etc. The legal routes for asylum applications apply to a very small limited number of countries deemed ‘worthy’ by the UK government. Bottom line; people fleeing persecution in many countries must resort to the traffickers in order to escape. If it was possible for them to apply for asylum from their own country they wouldn’t go anywhere near the trafficking gangs. They would prefer to come here legally. Surely even a child in primary school could see that!

Another 359 on 8 boats yesterday

What😱 … but surely the Rwanda scheme is a deterrent!

“Net migration has been unusually high in the past two years. The Office for National Statistics (ONS) estimates that net migration to the UK was 745,000 in 2022, up from 184,000 in 2019 before the pandemic (ONS, November 2023). “
This shows how we have “ taken control of our borders” since Brexit . Fewer than 10% of this high number are those claiming asylum. Those who come here legally are on work, study or family visas. Of course this government does not highlight these figures, they are concentrating on the few thousand who have arrived in small boats. They are lax about issuing visas. This is out of control far more. Concentrated on small boat arrivals is a drop in the ocean. Rwanda will make no difference to what are record numbers of immigrants.

Even if there were legal routes do you think that the ones refused would just give up, I don't, so they would still use the people smuggling gangs to get here. On the beach in Calais there were people from Vietnam what are they fleeing, most are economic migrants. I agree the deterrent is not working at the moment that's why I'm keeping check on the number of boats coming over. Although the Rwanda scheme has caused some fury in Ireland supposedly they are looking at ways to send them back to us, you couldn't make it up could you, like an episode of Father Ted, 😊

I seem to recall Father Ted being a comedy. I doubt my friends who have been rounded up and put in a Home Office van today are laughing.

Still I suppose it lowers the numbers.
No matter that they are human beings , the Rwanda is not paradise and they are terrified and suicidal.

Allsorts

If there were no boats, the people would not risk everything to get here. I can’t understand why, from day I, people were not employed just to wreck and disable the boats, those that do come here processed straightaway, then returned if illegal. It’s disgusting how bad all this has been handled.

But were the boats just left lying around on the beach?

You would have to get hold of them first to puncture / slash them.

I assume they were hidden somewhere prior to being used to avoid that happening.

Once the boats are in the water with the passengers I am guessing that the police have been told not to damage them in case people drown, and they (the police) are charged with a crime.

It all sounds easy in theory, but I would imagine the reality is somewhat more complex.

If boats were simply left lying about, I'm sure the police would render them unusable.

zakouma66

I seem to recall Father Ted being a comedy. I doubt my friends who have been rounded up and put in a Home Office van today are laughing.

Still I suppose it lowers the numbers.
No matter that they are human beings , the Rwanda is not paradise and they are terrified and suicidal.

Your friends are illegal immigrants?