Gobsmacked

I wonder what would happen if situations were reversed? How many of us older women, were we to be displaced by war to Ukraine, would have picked up enough Ukranian in a short space of time to be able to cope in hospital.

I volunteer teaching English to refugees in an informal setting. Our learners are mostly from Afghanistan, Syria and Ukraine. Among the older women, there is sometimes resistance to wanting to learn very much English other than the basics to get by. They come along, often with their daughters who are more receptive to learning a new language. The older women say they want to go home as soon as possible. Their longing for their homeland is palpable. They worry that becoming too involved with English culture will make it harder for them to return, especially as younger members of their family become more integrated.

Many writers have described how difficult it is to lose one’s first language. Here are some examples:

longreads.com/2022/02/24/disappearing-language-a-reading-list-on-losing-your-native-tongue/

I could not agree more with what you write, Siope. Some people on these boards need to learn some compassion and walk a mile in someone else’s shoes.

Surely this is a good news story. It shows how totally this Ukrainian lady has integrated into our culture and understood that in this country, no matter how much you are given, you should always demand more.

Casdon

The NHS uses qualified medical translators, they are employed to support complex conversations between patients and their doctors. I think most of us would struggle to impart clinical information in a different language, even if we can speak it ourselves.

In my Trust we use mainly phone interpretors ....sometimes face to face....none of them have any particular medical background...they just translate...some are better than others ...some are useless.....the trust pay for an hour service...even if its only 10 mins ....its not a cheap service butequality / diversity seems high on the nhs agenda

The NHS spent an estimated £174m on translation services for the years 2019-2022. Whilst I agree that new immigrants should receive a translation service when accessing the NHS, I do not agree that they should be provided for tourists, or for those who have lived in the UK for many years. Tourists should pay for their own translator - if they can afford to visit here, then they can afford a translator. Those who have lived here for years should have made the effort to sufficiently learn our language. I have worked in a GP practice, and translators are regularly provided, at a cost to the NHS, for people who have lived here for well over 10 years.

The quality of interpreters does vary considerably. We obviously use interpreters for meetings etc (childrens services) we dont have interpreters for the day to day info exchange that happens at the nursery/school door. I feel that more funding into English speaking classes would be more beneficial or those children will have less chances than mine.

In at least one of the Nordic countries you must learn the language to live there. But obviously you need access to language teaching.

Ours has virtually gone - and what we have left is mainly operating via charities using volunteers (such as TinSoldier).
Thank you TinSoldier

...However, words such as "oxygen", "plasma", "aneurysm" and "stroke" aren't in our normal vocabulary in a foreign tongue. It is going to be helpful to have a translator for these!

... I suppose some medical words may be guessable if we were taught Latin at school??

Like TinSoldier I spent many years giving free English lessons to immigrants. I am still in touch with many of them. The demographic was mostly young people and they were deeply grateful to be given the opportunity to learn English. Years ago there were FE colleges where people could go for language lessons at reasonable rates, but I don’t know of any that still exist in my area.

Opal

The NHS spent an estimated £174m on translation services for the years 2019-2022. Whilst I agree that new immigrants should receive a translation service when accessing the NHS, I do not agree that they should be provided for tourists, or for those who have lived in the UK for many years. Tourists should pay for their own translator - if they can afford to visit here, then they can afford a translator. Those who have lived here for years should have made the effort to sufficiently learn our language. I have worked in a GP practice, and translators are regularly provided, at a cost to the NHS, for people who have lived here for well over 10 years.

Those who have lived here for years should have made the effort to sufficiently learn our language.

Medical issues can call for a very high level of the language. The vocabulary is very different from 'everyday' language, so isnt something that the average non-native speaker is likely to become proficient in just by living here a long time.

I have a first class degree in a couple of foreign languages, but am not totally confident that I could easily navigate my way through all healthcare scenarios in those languages.

To be honest, I have struggled on several occasions to understand some doctors/consultants here in England, even though I am English!

I think you have hit the nail on the head Not Spaghetti, translating for medical terminology is not easy, this lady’s daughter would not have been able to do it for her, the NHS uses people trained in medical terminology wherever they can, although not available for all languages.

Some people just don’t want anything done for anyone not born and bred here, always has been, got slightly better a couple of decades ago but has now got much worse
but if course they expect their bacon and eggs and everyone to speak English if they have a problem overseas

If her daughter could speak and understand English, then I would have thought that was enough.😗

No, because she wouldn’t be able to tell her mother what was happening, try translating aneurysm, arrhythmia or cardiomyopathy or a similar word into a foreign language that you do know, like French for example, and you’ll understand why there is an issue. They are words we understand only in our own language, we can’t translate them into our second or third language easily, because they aren’t words we use regularly.

M0nica

Surely this is a good news story. It shows how totally this Ukrainian lady has integrated into our culture and understood that in this country, no matter how much you are given, you should always demand more.

Haha, good one!

There may be a case for translators in hospitals but bet there are few when you actually ask for one.
At least the heart patient had her daughter with her to translate.

Casdon

No, because she wouldn’t be able to tell her mother what was happening, try translating aneurysm, arrhythmia or cardiomyopathy or a similar word into a foreign language that you do know, like French for example, and you’ll understand why there is an issue. They are words we understand only in our own language, we can’t translate them into our second or third language easily, because they aren’t words we use regularly.

So what should happen then?
There are many foreign patients in hospitals with not much English, translators can’t be found for all of them, and what are the chances of getting a translator to be there at the exact time the doctor/ consultant/ surgeon is talking to the patient before they rush off and leave the ward?

BlueBelle

Some people just don’t want anything done for anyone not born and bred here, always has been, got slightly better a couple of decades ago but has now got much worse
but if course they expect their bacon and eggs and everyone to speak English if they have a problem overseas

Think this comment very unfair if aimed at the OP.
She was highlighting a patient who was invited to be here cos of the war in Ukraine apparently complaining about not having a translator on hand when her life was being saved as she had a heart condition.Yes, it would be very nice if a translator could be found for all foreign patients in the UK with little English but the bottom line is that the NHS is barely staggering along.
Waiting lists are endless and appointments hard to get.

I'm more 'gobsmacked' by this ... add them up!

metro.co.uk/2024/03/05/yorkshire-hospital-cuts-off-six-peoples-limbs-mistake-20403344/#:~:text=A%20hospital%20has%20admitted%20to%20cutting%20six%20people%E2%80%99s,number%20of%20any%20NHS%20trust%20across%20the%20UK

I made approximately 106! One of my local hospitals '15 or fewer' which obviously means 15.

Just *HOW can it happen more than once without serious reviews happening??

Imagine waking up in recovery thinking your right arm or leg was amputated, to find the good one gone and the bad one needing to come off as well?

There are generally maybe 8-10 people in theatre too so how can none of them notice? It is usually marked with a sharpie pre-op and before the surgeon begins the area is swabbed with iodine before being sheeted up, so it isn't just the surgeons to blame either - unreal, and quite terrifying.

Oreo

BlueBelle

Some people just don’t want anything done for anyone not born and bred here, always has been, got slightly better a couple of decades ago but has now got much worse
but if course they expect their bacon and eggs and everyone to speak English if they have a problem overseas

Think this comment very unfair if aimed at the OP.
She was highlighting a patient who was invited to be here cos of the war in Ukraine apparently complaining about not having a translator on hand when her life was being saved as she had a heart condition.Yes, it would be very nice if a translator could be found for all foreign patients in the UK with little English but the bottom line is that the NHS is barely staggering along.
Waiting lists are endless and appointments hard to get.

Actually, I dont think the OP has said that the patient's being here had anything to do with the war in the Ukraine, so I am assuming that is just an assumption.

Not that it makes much difference to thequestion under discussion, though.
As you said, the bottom line is that that the NHS is barely struggling along. That is the crux of the matter.

Oreo

Casdon

No, because she wouldn’t be able to tell her mother what was happening, try translating aneurysm, arrhythmia or cardiomyopathy or a similar word into a foreign language that you do know, like French for example, and you’ll understand why there is an issue. They are words we understand only in our own language, we can’t translate them into our second or third language easily, because they aren’t words we use regularly.

So what should happen then?
There are many foreign patients in hospitals with not much English, translators can’t be found for all of them, and what are the chances of getting a translator to be there at the exact time the doctor/ consultant/ surgeon is talking to the patient before they rush off and leave the ward?

What normally happens is that where a patient has a consultation to discuss a serious diagnosis every effort is made to find a translator. Hospitals have lists of their staff who can be called on to support the discussion, and use them first. If nobody in house is available a translation agency is contacted. It doesn’t happen frequently.

It’s an assumption based on the facts that she had very little English and many Ukrainians have recently moved here, yes.

Casdon
What doesn’t happen frequently? calling on a translation agency or finding somebody, anybody, to translate for a patient?
In my experience lots of NHS services are supposed to ‘be there’ but actually aren’t.

M0nica

Surely this is a good news story. It shows how totally this Ukrainian lady has integrated into our culture and understood that in this country, no matter how much you are given, you should always demand more.

Yes, didn’t take long did it.

MadeInYorkshire

I'm more 'gobsmacked' by this ... add them up!

metro.co.uk/2024/03/05/yorkshire-hospital-cuts-off-six-peoples-limbs-mistake-20403344/#:~:text=A%20hospital%20has%20admitted%20to%20cutting%20six%20people%E2%80%99s,number%20of%20any%20NHS%20trust%20across%20the%20UK

I made approximately 106! One of my local hospitals '15 or fewer' which obviously means 15.

Just *HOW can it happen more than once without serious reviews happening??

Imagine waking up in recovery thinking your right arm or leg was amputated, to find the good one gone and the bad one needing to come off as well?

There are generally maybe 8-10 people in theatre too so how can none of them notice? It is usually marked with a sharpie pre-op and before the surgeon begins the area is swabbed with iodine before being sheeted up, so it isn't just the surgeons to blame either - unreal, and quite terrifying.

OMG!!
That’s horrendous. I can’t understand how it can happen so much either.😲

Calling on a translation agency. Hospitals have staff speaking many different languages, thankfully. However, most wouldn’t have many if any staff who speak Russian.

👍🏻

The thing is, this lady was in a distressed state, the medical language used may have been difficult for her daughter to understand and properly translate. Let’s face it, those of us who may be able to “get by” in a language other than English or even be relatively proficient in it, would struggle to understand complex medical terms in that language. ( To be honest, some medical terms in English, I, as a native English speaker, struggle to understand).
I find the underlying thought behind the original post somewhat unpleasant - ie, the lady is receiving free medical NHS care and should be grateful for that, not “moan” that words weren’t translated to her. Travel a mile in another’s shoes, then criticise. The poor lady was probably frightened, worried and probably wished she could be in her own country - if only it was safe to be so …