Is JK Rowling pushing the boundaries too far?

Those trans women you speak of who stand by women are not under fire. Elegran

There are those who see ‘misgendering’ transwomen as a hate crime, and would like to see women punished for doing so. The question of the thread is whether by standing by those women and lending them her status and fame by repeating their words and inviting arrest and punishment herself (which would make the news and show the idiocy of the Scottish legislation) JKR is pushing the boundaries Doodledog.

VS, I do wonder if you see all minority groups automatically as "victims", that all need protecting from the general population?
Apologies if I have got that wrong.

fancythat

*Those trans women you speak of who stand by women are not under fire.* Elegran

There are those who see ‘misgendering’ transwomen as a hate crime, and would like to see women punished for doing so. The question of the thread is whether by standing by those women and lending them her status and fame by repeating their words and inviting arrest and punishment herself (which would make the news and show the idiocy of the Scottish legislation) JKR is pushing the boundaries Doodledog.

VS, I do wonder if you see all minority groups automatically as "victims", that all need protecting from the general population?
Apologies if I have got that wrong.

The ruling classes and the mega rich are minorities, perhaps VioletSky will start campaigning for their protection…

Trans women are free Glorianny. They are free to dress like women, to 'feel' like women (whatever that means) and to 'live' like women as far as they can and I don't see anyone on GN who has ever said they can't.

I agree that no one is free until everyone's free but as trans women's freedom isn't being curtailed, I don't see how this is relevant.

You don't have to be an intersectional feminist to recognise that all forms of discrimination matter, you don't have to be a feminist at all for that matter, but what I honestly don't understand are the self declared intersectional feminists who contribute to these discussions, and go on and on about discrimination and yet support the discrimination of women by some members of the trans community.

Smileless2012

Trans women are free Glorianny. They are free to dress like women, to 'feel' like women (whatever that means) and to 'live' like women as far as they can and I don't see anyone on GN who has ever said they can't.

I agree that no one is free until everyone's free but as trans women's freedom isn't being curtailed, I don't see how this is relevant.

You don't have to be an intersectional feminist to recognise that all forms of discrimination matter, you don't have to be a feminist at all for that matter, but what I honestly don't understand are the self declared intersectional feminists who contribute to these discussions, and go on and on about discrimination and yet support the discrimination of women by some members of the trans community.

I don't support any discrimination. But the obvious inaccuracies and pure prejudice exhibited against transwomen on these threads is pure discrimination and I cannot accept it. Pink leggings! Honestly!!?

Just one example, many more are available online.

Well done GrannyGravy there you are Glorianny pink leggings.

I can't find who besides Glorianny referred to pink leggings. Can anyone direct me?

Genitalia DO show up under stretchy leggings/trousers, BTW, just as a tight sweater has been proved by many women to accentuate their mammary glands or their labia (there is a word for the latter effect, but I can't think of it offhand.)

Pink leggings! Honestly!!?

Why can't you be straightforward and honest Glorianny? I didn't make that post but I'm sure it is a reference to Isla Blair the transwoman, initially sent to a female prison, who appeared outside court dressed in tight pink leggings that clearly revealed a penis and testicles. I'm sure even you could correctly sex that body?

Oops I hadn't refreshed the page, sorry.

Genitalia DO show up under stretchy leggings/trousers, BTW, just as a tight sweater has been proved by many women to accentuate their mammary glands or their labia (there is a word for the latter effect, but I can't think of it offhand.)

Camel toe.

Rosie51

^Genitalia DO show up under stretchy leggings/trousers, BTW, just as a tight sweater has been proved by many women to accentuate their mammary glands or their labia (there is a word for the latter effect, but I can't think of it offhand.)^

Camel toe.

Getting a camel tattooed on a toe is very popular. Especially when on holiday abroad when slightly inebriated

Elegran

I can't find who besides Glorianny referred to pink leggings. Can anyone direct me?

Genitalia DO show up under stretchy leggings/trousers, BTW, just as a tight sweater has been proved by many women to accentuate their mammary glands or their labia (there is a word for the latter effect, but I can't think of it offhand.)

Totally agree however it does beg the question why a man demanding to be identified as a woman would wear tight leggings revealing his girl dick other than to stick two fingers up a women.

a should read at apologies for typo

Thank you for the definition. I suppose the male variation could be called a spare pair of socks?

Don't apologise, GrannyGravy13 It made sense as it stood. I was already tempted to make some connection between camel toes and spare socks, but I managed to resist it.

Pink leggings! Honestly!!?

That seems to be the problem. You evidently don't understand the basis of discrimination and prejudice. But to help you , when you take one image consider that image negative in some way, and then apply those negative opinions to a whole section of society, that is prejudice, that is the basis of discrimination. You have in fact just proved what I have always said. Your views are not harmless they are damaging.
Evidently you imagine I should in some way apologise because you have one photograph of one person. I don't need to . I knew what you were talking about. I simply consider your prejudice unacceptable.

No one's applied the photographs to a whole section of society Glorianny.

Smileless2012

No one's applied the photographs to a whole section of society Glorianny.

Sorry Smileless2012 when I'm told that transwomen are easily identifiable because they wear tight pink leggings that display their genitalia What else are they doing?
It really is prejudice. It really is unacceptable.
It's based on the same premise that all discrimination is. This is a person who is X. Therefore all people who are X are like this. Therefore we need to fear them.

GrannyGravy13

RosiesMaw

Actually Glorianny unless the man identifying as a women has had their Adam’s Apple shaved it is relatively easy to spot them
Prominent genitals are also a giveaway even if the leggings are pink!.

👏👏👏

Original post by RosieMaw approved of by many including GG13 Calistemon21 Jennifer Eccles and Mollygo
I made a joke of it,
That was wrong the prejudice exhibited is deeply concerning and apparently unconscious.

I can't find a post that says transwomen are easily identifiable because they wear pink leggings that display their genitalia Glorianny, can you provide the name of the poster, date and time please?

I see you've preempted me Glorianny but that post doesn't say what you claimed in your post @ 19.45 does it.

I am not prejudiced towards trans identifying men.

I am totally against a man calling himself a women flouting his girl dick and demanding access to women only places.

The former live their lives without the intention of pushing their beliefs/agendas onto others. The second only want to push their beliefs/agendas with total disregard for women.

If you are unable to see the difference then it’s your problem not mine.

Does every poster have to preface every post with "Of course this only applies to the small proportion of transpeople but there is a very vocal minority who give all the others a bad name by . . .(whatever)" for it to be obvious to the keyboard warriors among us that this is implied often enough for regular posters to mentally apply it? Speaking only for myself, I do try to put that kind of disclaimer into my posts, but it does get tedious to have to repeat myself all the time.

Of course, it would then only be fair for the keyboard warriors to preface every one of their posts with a similar introduction. Perhaps their doing so and reading it in other posts would dampen down their umbrella accusations of hating all transpeople a bit. Perhaps not.

VioletSky

Oh I have shared my views on how to do that many many times

Unfortunately I was told that it's not up to women to resolve these issues and they shouldn't have to come up with solutions that protect everyone's rights so I gave up

Unfortunately I was told that it's not up to women to resolve these issues and they shouldn't have to come up with solutions that protect everyone's rights so I gave up.

Realistically VS - what do you expect women to actually do?

Starting from the premise that everyone is entitled to live a life free from abuse, assault and violence - which I believe those of us who are debating on here subscribe to; that no-one should be pilloried for being different; that everyone should have the human rights often talked about - everyone... even the shouty, aggressive TWAs should have those same human rights.

What are we - us women who have a belief - which is as valid as yours - to do?

Putting it in simple terms, for the sake of argument - we do not believe nor accept that a man with male chromosomes commonly known as the X and Y, can change himself into a woman. You have said that it shouldn't matter what is in one's pants, and to a degree you are right - some TW have had full genital construction surgery although I believe - the data is very difficult to quantify with any real accuracy - only a small proportion of TW go on to have such surgery (understandable when such surgery is expensive if paying privately, and difficult to get on the NHS, and pretty drastic either way).

So the majority of TW self-identify as women which means that what is in their pants is a penis. Even that doesn't matter so much as the fact that with or without a penis - their chromosomes are and will remain, male.

Where it does matter what is in their pants has been discussed endlessly on here, so I'm not going to bang on about it.

So it is men who are demanding that the status be turned on its head, and that women accept that if they say, or identity as women - we have to accept that they are in fact, women. And if we want to debate the matter - we do, after all, have a stake in this - we are labelled transphobic and nasty (by those like yourself) because we won't overturn what is scientifically understood about biology to accommodate those minority of men.

Can you not see the challenge? Can you not see that a problem which has not been created by women - a problem created by a minority of men - is presented to us as ours to solve? Basically and bluntly we are being told that transwomen should have the right to use our public toilets, changing rooms, and other private spaces - because they feel like women, and if we object that it's up to us to deal with the problem and work out how these men identifying as women can be accommodated.

This is a 'story' as old as the hills. Women being expected to accommodate men; their foibles, their weaknesses, their insecurities, fears, feelings. To some extent, feminism put a stop to this, but, we are still expected to "understand".

Why is this our problem - and again, what do you think women should do to protect "everyone's" rights - other than to fall silent, say OK, and shut-up?