Is JK Rowling pushing the boundaries too far?

You are one of the posters whose been asked that question on numerous occasions by me and others VS and it's usual in discussions to answer questions when asked.

Smileless2012

You are one of the posters whose been asked that question on numerous occasions by me and others VS and it's usual in discussions to answer questions when asked.

I am not sure how to explain this to you in a way that you will understand

I cannot answer a question that doesn't relate to me, that is not possible...

What I can do is talk about protecting the trans rights that actually exist.

For instance those given by the equality act that people would like to remove

I agree with the equality act as it stands in regard to women and trans people. Always have

Ok. I know I've asked this before, but let's see if you answer this time.

Where the rights of women include single-sex rights (eg the right to have informed consent about who touches them, or to decide who is around when they undress), how do you reconcile women's rights with what you see as the right of male-bodied people to ignore those single sex rights? Do the women just relinquish them, or do the male bodied people understand that just because they want something doesn't mean that they have a right to have it?

VioletSky

Again, there are those who want to remove trans rights, saying those rights must be protected is not the same as saying they are being denied

Gobbledygook.
What rights are you talking about
Removing trans rights?
-protected?
-being denied?
Can you truthfully say that you support female rights to have places and events frequently listed on here, free from male presence or would you always support the male right to have what they want. (TIM are males)

No one has suggested removing trans rights as part of the equality act have they?

Doodledog

Ok. I know I've asked this before, but let's see if you answer this time.

Where the rights of women include single-sex rights (eg the right to have informed consent about who touches them, or to decide who is around when they undress), how do you reconcile women's rights with what you see as the right of male-bodied people to ignore those single sex rights? Do the women just relinquish them, or do the male bodied people understand that just because they want something doesn't mean that they have a right to have it?

I have answered this many times

Separate changing rooms should always be provided. Many women are uncomfortable undressing in front of anyone

There are also many scenarios where sex based care cannot be guaranteed, when calling an ambulance or who is available for emergency surgery as examples. However elsewhere it is entirely up to the organisation involved to distribute their staff in such a way this does not impact anyone's rights.

JaneJudge

No one has suggested removing trans rights as part of the equality act have they?

Yes, Rishi Sunak indeed did and some would agree with him

VioletSky may I ask a question? You say preferred pronouns should be used and respected, it's only polite social etiquette. Do you then agree with the current position whereby, in court, a rape victim is compelled to call the vile individual who violated her, 'she' and refer to 'her penis'? Do you sanction what is figuratively the legal system raping her again?

I suspect you're on the milder end of the autistic spectrum, but someone like my grandson who is severely affected by autism and other co-morbidities says what he sees. How can that be wrong? Is he to be condemned for telling the truth in some situations when he is admonished for telling a lie in others?

Violetsky, it doesn't happen though as people who work in care settings do not necessarily understand the nuances of laws and this is why it is clear regarding female only personal care. In instances where a paramedic is called there is usually always someone else present anyway (for the sake of imagination)

This isn't dismissive of people who work in care settings, it is to important to have clarity, like we have in safeguarding in both care settings and education.

I have missed the stuff re Rishi Sunak.

What did Sunak say?, I havent heard him say anything particularly startling on the gender issue, it's quite possible I have missed it as he isnt one of my go to contributors on this subject.

I used to work with a young woman who had exclusively female care staff.

One of those staff transitioned fully to male (this was a very long time ago) and realised that it was now inappropriate for him to give personal care to a teen female.

No fuss, no arguments, it was just how it was. (And saved HR a huge headache, no doubt)

You have clamed that trans rights are being removed, VioletSky

Smileless posted "They do have the right to have their pronouns respected in the workplace and for GRC, they have the same right as anyone else to be protected from being bullied and harassed and they are not having their right to gender affirming treatment denied." (though people who do NOT want to publish their pronouns in their workplace, but prefer to be pronoun-anonymous for whatever reason, have been hounded for refusing)

Could you please read Smileless's post to yourself in a neutral tone, VioletSky instead of as an attack. What other specific rights can you think of?

However elsewhere it is entirely up to the organisation involved to distribute their staff in such a way this does not impact anyone's rights.
So how does this work when a woman wants a female rape counsellor as she doesn't want to discuss her rape with a man, or wants to swim in a pool with other women (ie people with female bodies) as that is what her religion insists upon, but a transwoman insists that transwomen are women and claims a right to be there?

Galaxy

What did Sunak say?, I havent heard him say anything particularly startling on the gender issue, it's quite possible I have missed it as he isnt one of my go to contributors on this subject.

Sunak stated that a man is a man and a woman is a woman. He said it was common sense. It caused outrage by some of the trans community.

Autistic people are individuals, let's just put that out there, we are different based on a variety of factors and influence.

I have read the research done on trans people and their differences on a genetic and potentially hormonal level so logically I believe this is happening for a reason. Logically I also know that there are men who have a women fetish and are not who they pretend.

Your other question I have also answered many times and I don't understand why people don't give me a fair hearing. Traumatised women should never be expected to worry about pronouns in court. It should have no bearing whatsoever to the case and any rapist cannot go to a female prison absolutely... Perhaps someone who can lawfully lose their freedom ought to lawfully lose a GRC too

But I don't in anyway blame trans people or think they should lose rights because predatorial men found a loophole to exploit. I blame the perpetrator of the crime

I left the thread for a few minutes to type a post and found that the discussion has moved to another angle, where people seem to have heard (or not heard) different accounts.

SO WHICH TRANS RIGHTS HAS SUNAK SAID HE WOULD REMOVE? so that we can know exactly what we are now discussing. It is impossible to reply logically to a post which only tells you half of the news they are in outrage about.

Doodledog

*However elsewhere it is entirely up to the organisation involved to distribute their staff in such a way this does not impact anyone's rights.*
So how does this work when a woman wants a female rape counsellor as she doesn't want to discuss her rape with a man, or wants to swim in a pool with other women (ie people with female bodies) as that is what her religion insists upon, but a transwoman insists that transwomen are women and claims a right to be there?

Again women's rights to safe spaces is protected under the equality act and must be honored by organisations and individuals

I read at the pace I read

www.theguardian.com/law/2023/apr/05/what-would-changing-the-equality-act-mean-for-trans-people-and-single-sex-spaces

www.theguardian.com/society/2023/sep/07/sunak-has-not-dropped-plan-to-ban-children-from-changing-gender-identity-says-no-10

Elegran

You have clamed that trans rights are being removed, VioletSky

Smileless posted "They do have the right to have their pronouns respected in the workplace and for GRC, they have the same right as anyone else to be protected from being bullied and harassed and they are not having their right to gender affirming treatment denied." (though people who do NOT want to publish their pronouns in their workplace, but prefer to be pronoun-anonymous for whatever reason, have been hounded for refusing)

Could you please read Smileless's post to yourself in a neutral tone, VioletSky instead of as an attack. What other specific rights can you think of?

I did not feel attacked by *Smileless and haven't said that. I always read comments in a neutral tone. It is very hard for me to engage when people aren't actually listening to me

Other requested information has been shared

I do have other things going on in my life and may not immediately answer questions especially when the thread moves fast and coming back to it means missing comments by accident

I find her very arresting.

MissAdventure

I used to work with a young woman who had exclusively female care staff.

One of those staff transitioned fully to male (this was a very long time ago) and realised that it was now inappropriate for him to give personal care to a teen female.

No fuss, no arguments, it was just how it was. (And saved HR a huge headache, no doubt)

This! This is how we need to be respectful of each other's rights as individuals

Er most countries are very urgently looking at 'gender affirming' care for children. It looks as if there will be criminal prosecutions in Italy re puberty blockers. Sunsk is not alone in his stance, its NHS policy not to affirm.

Sunak wanted a review of the 2010 Equality Act making it clear that sex means biological sex rather than gender.

This proposal would result in the protected characteristics of gender reassignment now only being protected for those who've gone through the full surgical procedure "of changing sex attributes".

This proposal would also remove trans peoples rights to access single sex spaces based on self identification. Access would require a GRC or having undergone medical transition.

I asked earlier what rights the trans community is being denied, that everyone else has. Men who do not identify as women do not have the right to access women's spaces, so if this proposal came to fruition, trans women would be being denied the right to do something that men don't have the right to do either.