Dr. Hilary Cass - report re trans.

Smileless2012
I hope if any parents do take their children out of the UK for help, they do plenty of research. That said I hope that they digest this report in full and are led by the common sense information provided.
This report is too late for the mother with whom we were friendly from my DGD’s time at preschool. He wanted to be a girl so much that at 16 she took him abroad for surgery.
Now she doesn’t have a son. . . or a daughter. The reality of his situation was too much for him and he committed suicide, leaving her carrying a lifetime guilt trip.

A science-based approach, rather than an ideological one. Debate, rather than 'No Debate'. Targeted support rather than a blanket approach. All of those things would be very much better than the way things have been for some time.

Absolutely Doodledog.

Callistemon21

Mamie

Apologies for adding to the thread derailment but:
As a SENCO in a state school I was supporting children with dyslexia in the late seventies and in our LA we were working with a specialist Educational Psychologis, the Dyslexia Association and peripatetic teachers. I then became an adviser and worked with a Paediatrician with specialist knowledge of dyspraxia in the late 8Os, as the condition was increasingly recognised in our schools. Having had the opportunity to work on a wide regional basis I know from experience, that while provision in LAs varied, there was also a great deal of knowledge and support available.
To return to the topic, I am pleased to see that such a compassionate, informed and pragmatic report is now available to those working in this difficult area.

Thankyou Mamie for your post, yes, the thread was becoming derailed but I think accusations aimed at posters needed to be refuted.
I'm not going to state where I worked, but it was back in the 1960s and early 1970s where I was a trainee and the staff included Educational Psychologists, PSWs, and a teacher who specialised in dyslexia and the problems it could cause.

Just a comment that SENCOs didn't come into being until the 1993 Education act. But heaven forbid I should ask for some accuracy.

This is a comment from the history of Dyslexia from Kings College London.
“^The UK government announced in 1987 that they were dispelling ‘a myth’ – the myth that they did not believe in dyslexia,” said Dr Kirby. “Driven by parents and those with direct personal experience of the condition, the history of dyslexia mirrors that of other conditions, like autism.”^
I can't help contrasting the idea that these conditions' identification and treatment were "driven by parents" with the perception today that somehow trans children are made by parents, rather than parents (as they have done before) identifying the condition earlier than governments

What a heartbreaking tragedy Mollygo.

Glorianny

Callistemon21

Mamie

Apologies for adding to the thread derailment but:
As a SENCO in a state school I was supporting children with dyslexia in the late seventies and in our LA we were working with a specialist Educational Psychologis, the Dyslexia Association and peripatetic teachers. I then became an adviser and worked with a Paediatrician with specialist knowledge of dyspraxia in the late 8Os, as the condition was increasingly recognised in our schools. Having had the opportunity to work on a wide regional basis I know from experience, that while provision in LAs varied, there was also a great deal of knowledge and support available.
To return to the topic, I am pleased to see that such a compassionate, informed and pragmatic report is now available to those working in this difficult area.

Thankyou Mamie for your post, yes, the thread was becoming derailed but I think accusations aimed at posters needed to be refuted.
I'm not going to state where I worked, but it was back in the 1960s and early 1970s where I was a trainee and the staff included Educational Psychologists, PSWs, and a teacher who specialised in dyslexia and the problems it could cause.

Just a comment that SENCOs didn't come into being until the 1993 Education act. But heaven forbid I should ask for some accuracy.

That was when it became law that every school should have one Glorianny. We had the title long before that, after we stopped being the "Remedial Teacher". I have the certificates.
We also used the term "specific learning difficulties" which included dyslexia. The Dyslexia Association was extremely helpful, did you not access their resources?
As anyone who has worked with children with learning disabilities, physical disabilities and emotional or behavioural difficulties will know, it is not all about the name, it is what you do that counts.

Mamie 👏👏👏

Grandmabatty

In over 25 years of teaching, I only encountered one pupil who was determined to change gender and did, to the extent that they changed name too. The school was very supportive of them. Before I retired six years ago, there were a number who were gender fluid or believed they were the wrong gender.Nearly every one had some mental health issues and were possibly gay but confused. Often some appeared to jump on the bandwagon as an attempt to understand their confusion. Once on the gender change rollercoaster, it's very difficult for teenagers to jump off. Anything which encourages a pause is welcome

Absolutely agree with you. I taught for 20 years and also knew just one student who changed gender. The whole staff were told and encouraged to ask questions as to how best to deal with them. That young person was very mature for their age (16) and was also open to any queries we had about how to support them. There were also feminine presenting boys and masculine presenting girls, but, to my knowledge, no-one raised the issue of changing gender with them. They were just as they were and any issues (which were mostly along the lines of using "gay" as an insult) were swiftly dealt with by staff and students were educated to accept each other as they were, with, to my knowledge, no mention of changing gender - they were just not conforming to stereotypes and that was seen as absolutely fine. Given that it was a Catholic School, the whole situation (with the transgender student) was dealt with very carefully to ensure that the student felt at ease and so did the other staff and students.

Sorry, I posted that without proof reading - shouldn't have repeated the bit about 'no mention of changing gender.' Oh for an edit button!

Mamie

Glorianny

Callistemon21

Mamie

Apologies for adding to the thread derailment but:
As a SENCO in a state school I was supporting children with dyslexia in the late seventies and in our LA we were working with a specialist Educational Psychologis, the Dyslexia Association and peripatetic teachers. I then became an adviser and worked with a Paediatrician with specialist knowledge of dyspraxia in the late 8Os, as the condition was increasingly recognised in our schools. Having had the opportunity to work on a wide regional basis I know from experience, that while provision in LAs varied, there was also a great deal of knowledge and support available.
To return to the topic, I am pleased to see that such a compassionate, informed and pragmatic report is now available to those working in this difficult area.

Thankyou Mamie for your post, yes, the thread was becoming derailed but I think accusations aimed at posters needed to be refuted.
I'm not going to state where I worked, but it was back in the 1960s and early 1970s where I was a trainee and the staff included Educational Psychologists, PSWs, and a teacher who specialised in dyslexia and the problems it could cause.

Just a comment that SENCOs didn't come into being until the 1993 Education act. But heaven forbid I should ask for some accuracy.

That was when it became law that every school should have one Glorianny. We had the title long before that, after we stopped being the "Remedial Teacher". I have the certificates.
We also used the term "specific learning difficulties" which included dyslexia. The Dyslexia Association was extremely helpful, did you not access their resources?
As anyone who has worked with children with learning disabilities, physical disabilities and emotional or behavioural difficulties will know, it is not all about the name, it is what you do that counts.

I'm always pleased to hear of people who worked to support children Mamie and of course there were places which did so for some dyslexic children. The Dyslexia Association is an organisation which I found difficult to use, much of the advice offered at the time being money related, something I couldn't afford. And certainly when I started teaching it was not mentioned in schools
I think the name sometimes counts.

Smileless2012

What a heartbreaking tragedy Mollygo.

It was and doubly so because her family, who had coped well when he was younger, and talked about being a girl, held her responsible for his death.

That is tragic, Molly. It must be so difficult for parents. We all want to do the best we can for our children, but it's not often that we are expected to navigate something that is new, under-researched and so contentious. I'm very grateful that we didn't have this to contend with.

I expect a lot of parents to double down in the face of the report, and I can't really blame them - you would blame yourself if you made a wrong decision, or a decision that had a difficult result.

AGAA4

Thanks Urmstongran. It's not a good idea for anyone to change gender until they are fully mature adults.

It's now accepted that the human brain does not fully.mature until age 24/25 years. So it really.makes sense to delay life changing decisions such as gender change till then at least.

Yes of course people will double down in relation to this, what else can they do. Admitting what has happened is going to be very difficult.
As for people going abroad many of the European countries have been backing away from puberty blockers for some time, in Italy they are starting criminal proceedings against clinics. In my view it will be the medical scandal of our age.

Galaxy

Yes of course people will double down in relation to this, what else can they do. Admitting what has happened is going to be very difficult.
As for people going abroad many of the European countries have been backing away from puberty blockers for some time, in Italy they are starting criminal proceedings against clinics. In my view it will be the medical scandal of our age.

No, I doubt that parents will be taking children abroad as most countries seem to be ahead of the UK in reaching these sensible conclusions that this is too important a decision for a child to make.

They could try Canada and America they have embraced it fully.

Delia22

AGAA4

Thanks Urmstongran. It's not a good idea for anyone to change gender until they are fully mature adults.

It's now accepted that the human brain does not fully.mature until age 24/25 years. So it really.makes sense to delay life changing decisions such as gender change till then at least.

How many of those who believe that children are capable of making life-changing decisions at an early age would give their children sole responsibility for making huge and important changes that impacted the whole family.

Would they give them the power over major family life decisions?

I really doubt it because they would assume the children didn't have the experience nor intellectual capacity to make such decisions.

So why believe they have the capacity to make some dramatic personal choices which might affect their future life?

Galaxy

They could try Canada and America they have embraced it fully.

In the US, it really does depend on what state. They all have their own rules/laws:

www.bmj.com/content/381/bmj.p1167

Glorianny

I just hope the report comes out with some positive advice for parents and for gender questioning children. Being told what not to do really isn't the most helpful thing is it? And the lack of services will throw many families into hugely difficult crises. In fact I can't think of any other condition where only negative advice is available, or considered acceptable. If anyone can I'd be delighted to know. Meantime my concern is how those children and families will cope, because they are not going to go away.

When you reach the conclusion that something - anything - you are doing might be causing more harm than it is doing good - you might not be in a position to have all the answers at that particular point.

So if you believe that what you are doing is harmful - do you just carry on until you have sorted out all the complexities?

The fault line is not with Cass, it is with the paucity of the mental health services within the NHS.

I think that the s very true, sadly. MH needs a lot more by way of resources.

I think what we (as a society, as parents, grandparents, teachers etc) could usefully do is stop telling children that they can be or do whatever they like, that all they have to do is try, or not give up and they can have the world.

It’s probably been a reaction against the ‘who do you think you are?’ the yes, but be realistic (get a trade/professional qualification before you try for your dream, the ‘respect your elders’ ways that went before, and I know that I tried never to stifle my children, but to encourage them. But in some ways it has gone too far, and young adults can feel they have failed and let themselves and their parents down if they aren’t at the top of every tree. I think that this affects mental health and could also explain why people think they can change sex, in the same way that they think they can get a First class degree, or a graduate job, just by wanting it. Nobody has ever told them that wanting isn’t needing, and needing isn’t necessarily deserving.

Sorry if that’s come out muddled- without going into detail I am multitasking.

I’m absolutely with your concerns about the stress, pressure on our children to excel. They’re being robbed of childhood

Galaxy

They could try Canada and America they have embraced it fully.

Of course they have! $$$$$$$$

I quite like the tweet which says 'in 10 years time everyone will be claiming they were gender critical' Fortunately in this technological age those claims will be shown to be untrue, although I see James O Brien is giving it his best shot. What cowards they are.

Doodledog I would add that we cannot always have something just because we want it. My DGD a very good and talented ballet dance has had to accept that no matter how good her dancing her physique is entirely unsuitable for being a ballet dancer. At leat she has accepted it and not turned to starving herself in the irrational belief that that if she lost weight suddenly her broad shoulders, and wide back would shrink also.

All of us have to learn to know our limitations

That was exactly my point, M0nica. Too many people seem to have been taught from birth that they can, though.